The witness 'Maya' describes the emotional volatility of her relationship with an undercover officer (Robert Hastings), detailing periods of silence, psychological distress, and his manipulative communication style via email.
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00:30:10 document, we could go to the next paragraph, please. Um well, Rob finally contacted me last night and over text conversation, I think he gathered more and more that something wrong might happen.
00:30:21 something wrong might happen. So, he came over and I've worked out that must be round about the 29th of August, looking at the chronology, um 2006. But, we didn't really get to talk much. It was late, we
00:30:34 really get to talk much. It was late, we were both tired, and I'm just too tired to fight. I know I'm very irrational. Mind you, I was absolutely serious with what I was about to do. And to be honest, there is nothing yet really that has erased that plan. Say it's been
00:30:45 has erased that plan. Say it's been postponed, because if things aren't working out or continue at this rate, I just don't know what to do.
00:30:54 So, this is as I've said, a few months, couple of months into your relationship. Um Myra, is this an accurate reflection of how you felt at the time? Yes.
00:31:06 We can see here that you are setting out for Rob Hastings in graphic detail the extent of your anguish.
00:31:16 anguish. Is that fair to say? Yes. And you're making it abundantly clear to him that
00:31:28 you are considering, or at least you have an urge to self-harm as a way of alleviating that mental anguish. Would you agree with that? Yes.
00:31:39 I'm sorry if this seems like an obvious question, but why did you communicate this to him? I just wanted him to know how um
00:31:50 I just wanted him to know how um I felt. And yeah, it
00:31:55 yeah, it you know, especially because he had uh
00:32:00 uh you know, to well, almost over explain myself when I had texted him that I didn't want to be responsible. And then he said, "Oh, delete my number." And stuff.
00:32:10 stuff. wanted to explain to him that it wasn't because
00:32:15 because I wanted to go and sleep around with other people, that I wanted to, you know,
00:32:21 know, uh
00:32:23 uh I I think there was still that silence for some time. Sure. Uh especially after his birthday. So, I just really wanted to let him know that. And I feel
00:32:36 let him know that. And I feel sort of bad because it almost looks like emotional manipulation, but I didn't really
00:32:42 really You know, I didn't want things out of him. I just wanted to show him that I was innocent. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:50 Yeah. And I'd like to look at his response to this email. Uh it's the same document, please. It's page seven. Uh this email from him I was dated the 3rd of September 2006. To the
00:33:03 dated the 3rd of September 2006. To the best of your recollection, it would appear to be the first email you received after that one. But do you think that's accurate? What I mean is is there a possibility there was another responses No. not included. Right.
00:33:14 not included. Right. So,
00:33:15 So, so a few days later. Yes. Um
00:33:20 Um I don't think we have to dwell on the first four paragraphs, but I remember you you referred earlier to his
00:33:29 presenting himself as a classical music buff. Um there's some references in paragraph three to Beethoven's ninth and Simon Rattle and
00:33:40 Beethoven's ninth and Simon Rattle and he's setting out this musical erudition for want of a better word. Um if we could look at paragraph seven.
00:33:51 This is where he appears to address some of the disclosures you've made in your previous email. I hate the fact that I seem to cause you pain. It certainly never is my intention.
00:34:02 It certainly never is my intention. There is something of a cliche there, but in every cliche there is some truth or is that a cliche too? I just want you to be safe and loved and cared for. Those brambles hurt and I'd
00:34:14 cared for. Those brambles hurt and I'd even prepared to become a gardener if required.
00:34:17 required. So, I have the will and dedication, you see.
00:34:22 Um What was the effect on you of this particular part of the message or just the message in general when you received it. I felt that he understood that I wasn't
00:34:35 I felt that he understood that I wasn't going to go off with other people. Yeah.
00:34:40 Yeah. Um
00:34:43 Did you feel that he had empathy for you?
00:34:48 you? Yes, to a degree. Yeah, I did. I felt that uh
00:34:53 that uh he had listened to me and that he was uh saying listen, I know things are hard, but I'm prepared to work through the baggage that you have and that you
00:35:06 the baggage that you have and that you know, we uh and I'm committed to being with you. Yeah, the willingness education. You see, you took that as an expression of his commitment. Yes.
00:35:16 Yes. Um if we could look at another email from him. It's in the same document. It's page 12.
00:35:25 This was sent on the 26th of September 2006, so about 3 weeks later. Mhm. If we look at the first paragraph, it's still tab A2.
00:35:36 still tab A2. Um he says he starts off I missed you there. I wrote that. I feel better for writing that down as if writing it makes it somehow real.
00:35:47 if writing it makes it somehow real. Real for me and real for you, too. I'm still trying to work out how I feel and why I feel the way I do and it hasn't helped that mom has been unwell again. Although this time it looks like it is related to the medication she is on.
00:36:01 related to the medication she is on. Just pausing there, he says he misses you. Is this another period in which he disappeared? Um Or cut contacts. Yes. Yeah. Um
00:36:12 Um Can you help us with roughly might just how long it had been since you'd seen him when he sent this? I'm not too sure. Maybe 2 weeks. Yeah, not really like it wasn't months or
00:36:24 not really like it wasn't months or anything.
00:36:25 anything. You had Had you seen him to best of your recollection, between the email that you sent at the end of August, where you talked about your urge to self-harm? Had you seen him in
00:36:36 to self-harm? Had you seen him in between times or not? Uh
00:36:40 Uh I don't recall. Yeah.
00:36:46 I mean, he appears in this first paragraph to offer some form of an explanation for his being out of contact. Yeah. His mother being unwell. Uh is that something
00:36:58 Uh is that something he would say generally to explain his absences or was this the first time he'd raised this? I think it's the first time he raised that in email. Right. Um he had not mentioned his mom being
00:37:10 he had not mentioned his mom being unwell until maybe in the middle of our relationship. Right. Yeah. Just very briefly, what had he told you about the nature of his the status of his relationship with his mother?
00:37:22 his relationship with his mother? Um he told me that he had been very estranged from her for many years. And I was really shocked cuz you know, I said, "Well, you know, like I did you ever
00:37:34 "Well, you know, like I did you ever spoken to your mom?" He said, you know, he said she doesn't live in London. And he said, "No, I don't call her." And I asked him why and he said, "Oh, it's because I don't agree with her lifestyle." Right. And I thought that was a very strange
00:37:46 And I thought that was a very strange Mhm. reason to give for not speaking to one's mother. Right. Um but then
00:37:54 but then over the course then he did, you know, later say, "Oh, I found out like my mom's got cancer." And so therefore uh he had been resuming this
00:38:06 resuming this contact after having been estranged for years from her. And when he said that he disagreed with her lifestyle, is that a reference to her sleeping with lots of men or what Did he go into
00:38:17 with lots of men or what Did he go into detail?
00:38:17 detail? He didn't. It confused me because he said that she had now one partner at that time. Right. Yeah. But you didn't He didn't elaborate on
00:38:28 But you didn't He didn't elaborate on what it was about her lifestyle that he supposed you disagreed with. If we go back to this email, the second paragraph he says, "I'm really upset and I want to be mad at you and mad at the guy who tried to kiss you
00:38:39 and mad at the guy who tried to kiss you when he knew that you were with me. Maybe it's significant that I've been able to go to the gym again and train and I feel better for doing that. Anger can be a great motivation in the gym.
00:38:50 can be a great motivation in the gym. It really help that weight move up.
00:38:56 But I also miss you. Don't think I don't. I miss your mad humor and your crazy way of making me smile along with your warm looks and your beautiful eyes that I could sink into. I listen to
00:39:07 that I could sink into. I listen to songs and I think of you, good and bad. I'm alone now at my place and think of you. I imagine you walking over to me and kissing me and taking me to bed. I imagine us together and in the morning
00:39:19 I imagine us together and in the morning I'm hard with your memory and name on my lips.
00:39:22 lips. But
00:39:23 But and it is the butt I'm trying to work out. I don't like it when you start to think about hurting yourself. I don't like it that you consider hurting yourself and think it normal. It's a typo. To do so. I'm hurt because
00:39:35 It's a typo. To do so. I'm hurt because I feel guilty that you feel that way and then I'm mad at myself because that isn't my responsibility that you have the choice about what you do with your body. It's your choice, not my decision and that extends to all the stuff beyond
00:39:47 and that extends to all the stuff beyond you causing yourself pain, which I think is selfish and irrational. But I don't want you to hurt or bleed or cry.
00:39:54 cry. And I don't want to cry either or feel sad or feel responsible for your pain. I want to be happy and loved and cared for and I want to trust.
00:40:06 So, if I understand probably, this is his response to your previous email, the one where you set out in great detail your anguish. How did you feel at the time when you received this?
00:40:17 when you received this? Um
00:40:21 I had very mixed feelings because, you know, I felt, "Oh, he misses me. He cares for me. He's dedicated." But it actually made me worry for him.
00:40:34 actually made me worry for him. I I totally forgot about myself then, you know, in a sense when I think about it now because, you know,
00:40:42 you know, it felt the letters more like, "I miss you. My mom's really unwell and I'm you know, who's going to look after Gabriel's tears, right?" So, I had to take care of him.
00:40:54 take care of him. Yeah.
00:40:55 Yeah. Well,
00:40:56 Well, indeed, because the emphasis, it would appear, is on how bad the self-harming makes him feel. Yeah. Would you agree with that? Yeah.
00:41:06 Yeah. Um there's no acknowledgement in this email nor any apology for the ways in which his behavior might have impacted you. Mhm.
00:41:17 have impacted you. Mhm. Did he ever apologize or show any insight into that when you saw him in person?
00:41:22 person? Never.
00:41:24 Never. Never. Uh
00:41:25 Never. Uh I I really don't remember him. Uh I never
00:41:31 I never I don't remember any conversations. That's why all of these I felt like the only time I could really talk to him was in the email. Right. In an in a sort of open way.
00:41:42 an in a sort of open way. Yes.
00:41:44 Yes. And I think you've told us previously why that was, because when you were with him, you felt the need to reassure him and show your love for him. Is that accurate?
00:41:51 accurate? Yes. Yeah. Um
00:42:00 We can see from the correspondence that
00:42:07 he I don't think we need to bring up the email, but there is another email from him. I'll for the transcript, I'll mention the reference. So, it's 38191. It's page 33, paragraph six.
00:42:19 It's page 33, paragraph six. And this is the email that he sent sometime It's undated, but it's around January 2007. And he says there in paragraph six, he states that
00:42:30 there in paragraph six, he states that he worries and is repelled by your ability to hurt yourself. Mhm. And it appears, again, correct me if I'm wrong, that again you've had a period of not being in contact. So, the suggestion
00:42:43 So, the suggestion might be that part one of the reasons for him keeping his distance is he's repelled by your self-harming. Is that fair? Is that what he gave you to understand? Yes. Yeah.
00:42:55 Yeah. Um
00:42:59 if we could bring up, please, 38191 again.
00:43:03 again. This is page 32. This is the email that you respond You respond to that email from him. This is dated the 12th of January 2007. It's A2 again. It's paragraph three,
00:43:15 It's A2 again. It's paragraph three, four lines down, please. And it says, "I haven't cut myself since late November, and I don't plan to anytime in the future. And overall, I think I've coped
00:43:26 future. And overall, I think I've coped very well considering all the [ __ ] over Christmas. I still have a lot of impatience regarding having to bring your stuff back to shops, and could we please work this out as soon as possible before the
00:43:37 this out as soon as possible before the end of January."
00:43:41 Was it right that you had stopped self-harming, or was that something you felt compelled to tell him to reassure him in the hope that he would see you again? Um It was a mixture of things, but yeah,
00:43:54 Um It was a mixture of things, but yeah, like I wanted to reassure him that that I'm not self-harming at the time. And is that linked to the fact that he said he was repelled by it previously,
00:44:05 said he was repelled by it previously, or was it something else? Um, well, I mean, I knew for myself that it was not a good thing to do. So, yeah, I mean, the the letter of him
00:44:16 yeah, I mean, the the letter of him saying that he was repelled, then, you know, that it wasn't just that I stopped self-harming not just because of what he said, but because I
00:44:27 because of what he said, but because I should know better as well. Yeah. So, you did manage to stop? I did manage to, yeah. Yeah. And around November?
00:44:36 November? Yes. Yeah. I think the intense period was more over the summer of 2006. Yeah.
00:44:44 Yeah. Um,
00:44:45 Um, there's another very difficult topic my I want to talk about suicidal ideation. Mhm.
00:44:51 Mhm. Um, if we could bring up again, please, 38191.
00:44:55 38191. It's page 18.
00:44:59 It's tab A2. Uh, this is the email from you sent, uh, yeah, on the 20th of November, 2006,
00:45:10 yeah, on the 20th of November, 2006, at 4:19 in the afternoon. And
00:45:15 And you say, so, this is the penultimate paragraph. You write this to Robert Hastings. You say, "What I mean is, when you upset me to the point I think about taking lots of sleeping pills,
00:45:27 of sleeping pills, and if that doesn't work, just taking any combination of pills in an unhealthy volume to knock me out and flirt with death, is not your fault. However, I can't take you out of the picture.
00:45:38 can't take you out of the picture. Yesterday, I thought if you could look at me kindly as I went to sleep, how happy I would be, because then when you go to sleep with a smile, you dream nice dreams, and then I could dream nice dreams forever without having to wake
00:45:49 dreams forever without having to wake up. When I'm very upset, it is usually over you, and this is not a nice situation for you to be in. When you slap me with silence, I get to thinking there must be something really wrong with me. And even though I know my My
00:46:00 with me. And even though I know my My and daddy love me and lots of other people, too. Somehow, it doesn't matter, because what matters is if you love me or not. Is if you loved or not. This is a pathetic situation to be in.
00:46:13 Again, for context, Maya, I understand again this is a period in which he'd distance himself from you. Is that right?
00:46:21 right? Um and again, was this an accurate reflection of how you felt at the time? What I mean is that you were so distressed, you were thinking about suicide.
00:46:30 suicide. Yes. I mean, I even stockpiled the pills on my windowsill. So, yeah.
00:46:40 Um you sign off this email on page 20. I don't think we need to bring it up, but you sign it off Robert Harrison, I could always love you more. Can I just ask, it's slightly strange
00:46:51 Can I just ask, it's slightly strange phrasing. What did you mean by that? Was that I Was that a declaration of love? Yeah, because I felt that maybe he didn't feel I loved him enough. Um and by this stage, you were in love
00:47:03 Um and by this stage, you were in love with him. Yes. If we could look at his response, please. It's the same document, page 21. Uh this is another email that he sent in quick succession. So, yours was sent at
00:47:15 quick succession. So, yours was sent at 4:19, his is sent at 17:31. What if I
00:47:20 What if I in the in the evening, and also sent us 4:19 in the afternoon. Um
00:47:28 he says this, I think Well, hello. As always, I'm not sure when you are going to be able to read this, but I can only hope it is soon. I think I've managed to calm down a little bit.
00:47:38 bit. But without doubt, you are the most infuriating person that I have ever known, and then in caps, ever, as in ever and ever. The other morning evening, when you came
00:47:50 The other morning evening, when you came around, I was sleeping, or rather trying to sleep, as I had been working all day after another early start. At the moment, there isn't much work in New Cross, so I'm doing lots of delivery type work and driving around for friends, which means very early starts
00:48:02 friends, which means very early starts and often equally late finishes. And I was absolutely shattered. Just pausing there. When you came round, is this a reference, Maya, to when you went round to drop off presents and you
00:48:14 went round to drop off presents and you ended up waiting in the cold for a period of time, or is it another time? Um
00:48:22 I I I It could have been. Um but I also remember
00:48:29 remember um
00:48:34 I don't know whether that was during that time. I also remember him saying, "Oh, I'll pick you up." And I went to a cousin's house. Mhm. That
00:48:45 I went to a cousin's house. Mhm. That wasn't too far away from when he lived in Bow Road. Yeah. And he said, "Oh, he's got work to do." And you know, so I said, "Okay, well, I'll go see my cousin, and then you can pick me up there." Yeah.
00:48:54 Yeah. And then I just waited the whole night. Yeah. So, it could have been that, or it could have been. But yes, it Yeah. But you texted him, but he hadn't responded.
00:49:05 responded. and then he said, "Oh, I'll pick you up in an hour." Sort of whatever, something like that. Yeah. Um can I ask rough Can you remember what time roughly that was that he said he'd he sent you that text? Um I'd imagine
00:49:17 he sent you that text? Um I'd imagine maybe like
00:49:21 7:00 p.m. or something like that. And then you didn't hear from him. Yeah. Um halfway down paragraph three that we've got up, he says, "I saw your texts in the morning, too, and I was hurt that
00:49:32 in the morning, too, and I was hurt that you think my life revolves around money. It doesn't, but I don't have anyone to turn to finan- financially, and never really have for help and support. It's just me to pay my bills and deal with all the stuff that life throws at me."
00:49:45 all the stuff that life throws at me." So, so far he's talked about being asleep when you came over, about being very tired, about all his early starts, about needing to work so hard for money. Um
00:49:57 Um to what extent did this make you feel guilty? Or did you not feel like that when you read this?
00:50:05 this? It made me feel very guilty. Yeah.
00:50:10 Yeah. I felt like oh, I shouldn't have had a go at him. I should be more understanding. Uh paragraph four, he addresses This is the first time he addresses your
00:50:21 the first time he addresses your disclosure about suicidal ideation. He says, "I also find it hard to deal with you when you are in such pain, or rather to deal with the way that you express your pain verbally and physically. I
00:50:33 your pain verbally and physically. I really don't know how to handle your way of physically damaging yourself. I can't understand why you do it. Maybe out of a sense of frustration, but it isn't right and it hurts me to see you and to know you are doing this to yourself. I also
00:50:46 you are doing this to yourself. I also start to feel guilty wondering if it is my fault that you are behaving this way. And then that guilt makes me think that I need to stay away from you. And then if I wasn't there, you wouldn't want to write letters in your flesh.
00:50:57 write letters in your flesh. And I don't care if your friends think I'm being a prick. I also, like you, have a sense of self-worth and I know I'm one of the good guys. I don't act like a prick or embarrass you or shout at you even when you told
00:51:09 you or shout at you even when you told me about that prick touching you or shake you or hit you. I never would and you know that." You've told us you've referred earlier to
00:51:19 to the shaking you you've been shaken reference. So, he's bringing that up again. Mhm. Um
00:51:26 Um again, he he seems to be saying, tell me if this is wrong and I don't know if this was something he said on more than one occasion, but that compared to this individual, the person who shook you, he is a good man. Yes. Is that
00:51:39 is a good man. Yes. Is that fair to say? Yeah.
00:51:42 Yeah. Uh paragraph five, he says, "Nor do I [ __ ] around. I've had that happen to me, so I know just how shitty that can make you feel.
00:51:53 just how shitty that can make you feel. I ignore other options, and my bed stays empty except for you. And my body isn't there to be touched by anybody else. It has a Maya lock on it, like an invisible force field that works
00:52:05 like an invisible force field that works wonders and keeps me safe. I'm not perfect, I know that, but I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to be good.
00:52:14 good. But you also make me smile and laugh and feel warm, and you make me forget that there is anything else other than us when we are together. And that isn't just meant in a sexual way, either. But I'd be the first person to say that what we have there is something that I
00:52:26 we have there is something that I haven't experienced before, nor would I want to."
00:52:30 want to." And then he signs off in the same way as you did, "And still I could love you more."
00:52:36 So, by this stage we we can recognize these are quite familiar themes in his correspondence with you. So, that your self-harming makes him feel bad, how it makes him want to distance
00:52:47 how it makes him want to distance himself, how he's one of the good guys, issues uh allusions to his difficult past. Would you agree that these appear to be themes that Yeah.
00:52:56 Yeah. re-emerge in his Yeah, I mean it just gave us an understanding that we are both damaged individuals that need to work through things together. Yeah. Um but he also does express loving
00:53:09 Um but he also does express loving feelings towards you in this. Again, can you remember how this message felt how you felt receiving this message at the time? Uh
00:53:20 Uh Yeah, again, always just sort of feeling like
00:53:24 like reassured, feeling like, "Oh, you know, maybe I
00:53:28 maybe I I went too far. Maybe I should have not have go at him." I mean, I knew that self-harm is wrong. Yeah. Um
00:53:37 Yeah. Um Yeah. And so, it just made me feel a little guilty. Yeah.
00:53:43 Yeah. And you say in your witness statement, Maya, at paragraph 4.27 that when you saw each other again after this period of separation, that he'd sort of imposed on you. Um you say you visited him in his flat a
00:53:56 Um you say you visited him in his flat a fourth time and he was at home. Mhm.
00:54:00 Mhm. And you told he told me that he barely remembered having accused me of cheating with him and that it was just a joke. So again, just to unpack that a little bit. Is that accurate first of all?
00:54:12 bit. Is that accurate first of all? So again, just to unpack that. I think you've said this before, but just for clarity. So that that period of separation, your understanding was that was because he thought you'd been unfaithful. Yeah, cuz that was the time when he had
00:54:23 Yeah, cuz that was the time when he had even sent a text saying like, "Oh, I saw this man come out your house with a guilty look in his eyes." Uh and then he just didn't contact me. Yeah. But you did have this email
00:54:35 Yeah. But you did have this email contact.
00:54:36 contact. Yeah.
00:54:37 Yeah. And can you help us with when it was that you saw him again after this period? Was it in December 2006?
00:54:46 I don't possibly early December. I don't know. It It seems from the emails that you might have seen one another before Christmas 2006 and then there was
00:54:59 before Christmas 2006 and then there was another period of Yes.
00:55:01 Yes. Yeah.
00:55:03 Yeah. Um
00:55:04 Um I want now just to quickly just try and map out the way the relationship progressed. Yes. Maya. So um Yes, it it seems that you had
00:55:15 Yes, it it seems that you had one meeting and then you had a long period of not seeing each other until So for between sort of early December 2006 and then early February 2007. Does that sound right?
00:55:26 sound right? Uh possibly. Yeah, it sounds right, but I I I really don't know the dates. Yeah. Well, to try and pin it down a little bit more. Um I I don't know if we need to bring this
00:55:37 I I don't know if we need to bring this up, but I'll read you just a little bit from one of your emails. Uh this is it, 38191, page 35. This is your email uh to Robert Hastings sent on the 31st of January 2007.
00:55:49 January 2007. And in paragraph two, you say, "I also wonder if it is a test of faith when you write things like you miss me, but then nothing much is done to show that you mean it. It doesn't make sense when the last time you came to see me was before
00:56:00 last time you came to see me was before Christmas, and you know how I have always offered to make time to come and see you if it was hard for you to come to meet me, and now it's almost February." Mhm. So,
00:56:11 So, and there's there are gaps in the email, so there's an email uh
00:56:15 uh on the 29th of November 2006. And then that one from him that I've referred to where you reply on the 12th of January. Mhm.
00:56:26 Can you help us with whether there was any email contact, additional email contact between those dates that might not be in the exhibit, or is the exhibit the totality of The exhibit is the totality. Yeah, and there was that long
00:56:38 totality. Yeah, and there was that long gap, Christmas. Um
00:56:43 Were there any I mean, you say there was no contact again, just for the avoidance of doubt. Were there any texts accusing you of infidelity during that time, or any of the crude messages that we've No, there were no
00:56:56 messages that we've No, there were no text messages either, and that was what worried me, that long silence. Yeah.
00:57:02 Yeah. Um
00:57:05 Again, from the emails, it seems that you then did meet up on the evening, very late on of the evening of the 1st of February 2007. Mhm. The morning of the 2nd of February
00:57:16 Mhm. The morning of the 2nd of February 2007. Does that sound right?
00:57:19 right? Yeah.
00:57:20 Yeah. Um
00:57:22 Um Again, there's an email. We don't need to bring it up, but there's an email from you dated the 2nd of February 2007. It's page 38 of 38191, and you refer in that email in the first
00:57:33 and you refer in that email in the first paragraph to when we met yesterday technically this morning. I had no idea how you felt. Which would seem to confirm you had an encounter.
00:57:44 encounter. Can you help us smile with the circumstances in which you met up again on that occasion? Um
00:57:55 I don't know if it was the time when he just suddenly showed up out of the blue. I think
00:58:02 I think more
00:58:05 more Yeah, cuz if it's late at night I wouldn't have gone that late at night to his house. I don't think so. Yeah. So it was him you think it was him getting in touch very late at night ad
00:58:17 getting in touch very late at night ad hoc. Yeah. Um
00:58:21 Um you've
00:58:22 you've touched on this briefly but quickly was there a discrepancy between the way that he treated you in person and and how he treated you when you were apart?
00:58:33 when you were apart? Yes, very very much so. It's almost like three Robs, you know, so there was Rob that
00:58:40 that was
00:58:42 was nice but always just wanted sex when we met.
00:58:45 met. There was Rob in the emails that is more the Rob that I fell in love with in the sense that just sent lovely flowery messages and you know, very poetic and
00:58:56 messages and you know, very poetic and grand declarations that weren't that wasn't very much done in person. And then there was nasty Rob who was always when the text messages came they would just be very mean.
00:59:08 would just be very mean. Yeah.
00:59:09 Yeah. Um
00:59:11 Um we've looked at some of the negative impacts of you of the relationship. I also just wanted to ask you about whether any other aspects of your life were negatively impacted. So for
00:59:22 were negatively impacted. So for example, your studies. No. No. I mean my my studies, I was struggling with them. Um, but
00:59:31 Um, but I always prided myself in excelling academically. So, that was something that
00:59:38 that I had done for myself. I felt I felt in a sense against all odds. You know, so this is something that I have to fight for no matter what chaos may come around me in life. At
00:59:50 chaos may come around me in life. At least that's the one thing that I have. So,
00:59:54 So, so I was working part time and I was studying part time, but I didn't have any family tragedies or other big issues going on. Yeah. I understand from the witness statement from your witness statement you were doing an MA. You
01:00:06 statement you were doing an MA. You started an MA in 2006. Yes. You say in your witness statement at paragraph 4.57 that you took some time off and you ended up you just took
01:00:17 time off and you ended up you just took some time off that MA and ended up not completing it until 2012. Yes. So,
01:00:23 Yes. So, that seems to slightly contradict what you just said. Oh, yeah. No, I I thought you meant like were there other things that was impacting my emotions, but yes, I'm sorry. It's just No, sorry. Sorry. No, no, that's that's fine. It's my fault I didn't phrase it properly.
01:00:35 fault I didn't phrase it properly. Yeah. But yeah, no, it really impacted my concentration and my studies and what should have been finished in 1 year took far more. It 7 year not 5 years.
01:00:46 far more. It 7 year not 5 years. Yeah.
01:00:48 Yeah. Um
01:00:55 The impression I get from the witness statement and some of the documents is that Robert Hastings was very sensitive about what he perceived to be slights to him,
01:01:08 what he perceived to be slights to him, to people mistreating him. Is that fair enough?
01:01:11 enough? Yes.
01:01:12 Yes. Um
01:01:15 There's a reference. I don't think we need to bring it up, but it's in an email that he sent on the 23rd of September 2006 where he says um I'll just read this bit out to you. It
01:01:27 I'll just read this bit out to you. It He says, "But I'm not sure what happened to sex. I think the reaction of your friends has troubled me more than I expected, especially as I've not said anything to anyone, haven't sat down and said I was really pissed off because
01:01:38 said I was really pissed off because I have not and will not. So, I feel as if I've been judged without anyone asking me what I felt. And the [ __ ] drank the beer, too. So, I guess their outrage only goes so far. Can you help
01:01:49 outrage only goes so far. Can you help us with what he's talking about there? Uh he's talking about my neighbors. Yeah. Who had become my friends. Yeah. You know, they had seen that my situation
01:02:03 know, they had seen that my situation was my mental health was unraveling and they said, "Well, that's not a proper boyfriend, you know. He should take you out. Why don't you go on a date?" and stuff like that. And what he refers to with the beer is that next door, Ateaf
01:02:17 with the beer is that next door, Ateaf would have Ateaf and other members of the pub would have house parties and he usually he would come and bring beer. Yeah. Um yeah, he'd bring Red Stripe
01:02:29 Yeah. Um yeah, he'd bring Red Stripe beer over as his contribution to the party. And so, he felt that, you know, he'd been so my understanding was he's been so helpful in the Palestinian cause and even you
01:02:42 in the Palestinian cause and even you know, not just even bringing the beer to their house. And so, he had That's what he's he's he's referring to my neighbors. Right. Yeah. Um
01:02:54 If we could bring up, please, 38191 page 65 paragraph two. This is leaping ahead in time, Maya, to after your first relationship had ended. This is an email
01:03:06 relationship had ended. This is an email he sent as Curtis Mantronic Mhm. on the 16th of May 2008. And paragraph two, he He this, "Life has changed a little for me. I'm older,
01:03:18 changed a little for me. I'm older, wiser, and perhaps even more cynical than before, especially regarding activism and the motives of people that I would have once called my friends. I use the word once quite pointedly, as it really is a truism that when things go
01:03:29 really is a truism that when things go very bad in your life, you find out who your friends are. Given what has happened over the last 6 months or so, I would have expected some people to have tried to get in contact, if only to see I was okay. Even a two-line email would
01:03:41 I was okay. Even a two-line email would have been sufficient. Needless to say, that didn't happen. It has taken me some time to get over the anger I felt towards some people and the sense of disappointment towards others."
01:03:52 disappointment towards others." Um
01:03:53 Um as far as you understand it, the reference to what has happened over the last 6 months is that his mother being ill, do you think? Yes. Um
01:04:04 I mean, this suggests he's he's been quite self-pitying. Do you think that's fair enough? Yeah. Uh
01:04:12 Uh again, what was the effect on you of reading this? Did you feel sorry for him? Did you find it irritating? I felt very sorry for him because I thought
01:04:21 thought that he was such close friends with his neighbors and that um
01:04:28 um you know, that they hadn't inquired after him after how much he had said he'd done for them, you know, throughout the course of our relationship, that frustration. And I
01:04:39 relationship, that frustration. And I felt like here he is on his own having to take care of a sick mom. Yeah. And uh nobody just asked how he is. Yeah. Yeah. Um how do you feel now that you know
01:04:51 Um how do you feel now that you know that
01:04:53 that he was reporting on these people and that
01:04:56 that he was targeted towards them and wasn't, in fact, helping them out of the goodness of his heart? Well, you know, my vocabulary is really limited, so disgusting is even too nice a word, I think.
01:05:08 think. I want to talk now about your pregnancy scare, Maya, in um March 2007. Um
01:05:18 Um I understand from looking at the documents that the scare arose from a sexual encounter which took place, I think, on the 12th of March 2007. Does that sound broadly accurate?
01:05:30 that sound broadly accurate? No. No? No. When do you think it was? Uh I think it was the fact that I was so stressed that I had not
01:05:42 I was so stressed that I had not menstruated for a couple of months then. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. So, you It was that the reason you thought you might be pregnant because you hadn't menstruated. Yes. For a couple of months.
01:05:54 Yes. For a couple of months. By the time I mean, it ended up being about 6 months in total, actually. Okay. Yeah. Um
01:06:01 Um I'm sorry again if this sounds like a stupid question, but what was it about being pregnant that worried you so much? Well, I mean, I hadn't even finished my MA, you know? So, why would I
01:06:13 MA, you know? So, why would I I wasn't married. So, you know, it was not a time to bring a child into the world. You know, I didn't think it would be very sensible to do that. And how did you feel about terminating a pregnancy? Oh, no, I would
01:06:26 terminating a pregnancy? Oh, no, I would not consider it then. Yeah.
01:06:29 Yeah. Uh I was very Christian, so yeah. Um
01:06:35 Um If we could bring up, please, UCPI-38191, page 48,
01:06:41 page 48, paragraph one. This is an email you sent to Rob
01:06:47 to Rob relating to this issue. Mhm. It's tab eight, two, sir. You say,
01:06:52 You say, "Dear Rob, dearest Rob, before you decide to snap again at me, take a deep breath and realize this is a letter.
01:06:59 letter. I'm not here, and you don't have to hear my voice, which you've got an aversion to. I'm not in front of you winding you up, so this letter should do you no harm. Give it at least a chance to find out what is going on. If not for my
01:07:10 out what is going on. If not for my sake, for yours, because you also need clarity in what is going on. And then it is up to you to decide what is fluff and what is not. And then in paragraph two,
01:07:21 And then in paragraph two, you say,
01:07:22 you say, so just the first sentence of paragraph two, so you think it is as simple as knowing whether I am pregnant or not. At this stage, Maya, have you talked to Robert Hastings about your worries about
01:07:35 Robert Hastings about your worries about being pregnant? Um
01:07:39 Um I think by then, yes. In person or via text or on the phone? I think on the phone. Right. Yeah, I don't remember it getting Yeah, I don't
01:07:50 don't remember it getting Yeah, I don't remember
01:07:51 remember via text.
01:07:54 via text. Possibly though. Sure. When you say, "So, you think it is as simple as knowing whether I'm pregnant or not." That suggests that he said, "Why don't you just take a test?" Is that accurate?
01:08:06 test?" Is that accurate? I guess so. I mean, I was pretty I didn't even have a clue about pregnancy tests back then. Right. So, you'd never taken a pregnancy test before. No.
01:08:18 No. Um well, except for the one time when I'd been raped, but yeah, but that was with the doctor, so I didn't really know how it worked. Okay. So, do you mean you didn't know how long after the
01:08:31 how long after the sexual encounter they might work or what do you just didn't Yeah. I just didn't know, you know, I I didn't know that you could go and get a self test, you know, to a at a local drug. I thought you had to go to a
01:08:42 drug. I thought you had to go to a doctor and book an appointment. Um also, the the because I had not menstruated for some months, I I would have thought that well, you know, if it's like I
01:08:54 that well, you know, if it's like I would have felt something in my belly, but I hadn't. So, yeah.
01:08:58 So, yeah. Um
01:09:01 When you had been tested for pregnancy previously, had you gone to your GP? Is that how you'd Well, yeah, when I Yeah. Yes.
01:09:11 Yes. Um
01:09:13 Um If we could look at paragraph two, please, five lines down, which it reads, "And you know I like to talk as if everything is fine." Sorry, I know it's not easy to find, but
01:09:24 know it's not easy to find, but um
01:09:27 Okay. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And you know I like to talk as if everything is so fine, often get denial to help me get by.
01:09:35 by. Um
01:09:37 Um When you say you know, as in he knew that you like to talk as if everything is so fine, how did you know that he knew that this was something that you did, that you tended to pretend things
01:09:48 did, that you tended to pretend things were fine when they weren't? Well, because, you know, when we were together, when and whenever we would meet together, I would not uh broach uncomfortable subjects with
01:09:59 uh broach uncomfortable subjects with him, whether it was self-harm, whether it was
01:10:03 it was you know, uh my confusion about his jealousy or things like that. You know, it was just always very niceties. How was your day? Oh, this is You know, it was very like small, superficial chat,
01:10:15 was very like small, superficial chat, or into like deep you know, subjects of music or something like that. But it was just I would not talk about um
01:10:25 um uncomfortable matters. Yeah. So, on the basis of that, you thought he knew that you were someone who tended in person to pretend everything was fine. Yeah, because then he knew I
01:10:36 was fine. Yeah, because then he knew I self-harmed as well by then. Yeah. Um if we could look at paragraph three, please, on page 48. It starts, "First of all,
01:10:45 all, first of all, you can't get angry at me for not being clear enough to you when you were the one who constantly obstructs opportunities for me to tell you anything. I get very confused at how to handle you rejecting my calls, being
01:10:56 to handle you rejecting my calls, being rude and hanging up, or snapping at me when I do talk. You can't let your temper get in the way to make situations worse, because what then if I am pregnant?
01:11:04 pregnant? Um does it follow from that, Maya, that when you tried to contact him to talk about it, he would reject your calls, that he would be rude, that he would hang up, that he
01:11:15 rude, that he would hang up, that he would snap at you? Yes.
01:11:20 Can you help us with how he'd be rude, for example? Um yeah, so in person he was not He wouldn't snap at me, you know, in person it was always just uh
01:11:32 moments of seduction, I suppose, for lack of a better term. But then, on the phone, so you know, if he accused me of something, or I said I really need to talk, or whatever, and then I give him a call, he'll just pick up, he'll
01:11:44 him a call, he'll just pick up, he'll hear my voice, and he'll say, "Oh, [ __ ] off."
01:11:46 off." Or he would just be like, you know, "Don't call me." and just hang up. So that's how rude he used to be. And he did that when you were trying to contact him to talk to him about this pregnancy scare.
01:11:58 talk to him about this pregnancy scare. Yeah.
01:12:01 This paragraph continues, "You might not be ready to be a dad, but it will take a lot for me to get around the idea of abortion, since it goes against my fundamental beliefs. I have already told you, even when I was raped, how I was
01:12:12 you, even when I was raped, how I was ready to have the child if I was pregnant, even if that would seem the end of my life, since abortion would make a murderer out of me. So if I had the courage to face the possibility of mothering a child by the person who's treating me worse in the world, surely
01:12:24 treating me worse in the world, surely if I was pregnant by you then, with or without you, at least I would face my responsibility. Or perhaps you already know this, and this is what distresses you. These are the sort of things we should be discussing when we wonder if I'm pregnant or not, not shouting at
01:12:35 I'm pregnant or not, not shouting at each other. I want to feel that I am not alone in this fear, but you seem to distance me more and more, that I just end up feeling you really couldn't give a [ __ ] if I was. You certainly have made the effort to show me that you do while I have to keep trying to communicate
01:12:47 I have to keep trying to communicate with you. I don't know that you you worry when you don't bother to reply to my messages over the weekend, and just tell me what a night you've had being drunk and end up breaking words to call me again.
01:13:01 So, it seems here, Maya, that you are setting out for him in some detail your why you're so anxious about being pregnant and why you would not want to get an abortion if you were Yeah.
01:13:12 get an abortion if you were Yeah. pregnant.
01:13:13 pregnant. Um
01:13:15 Um this reference to him telling you what a night he's had being drunk. So, again, does it follow that when you were trying to contact him, he messaged you saying I've had a great night, I got drunk.
01:13:26 I've had a great night, I got drunk. Yeah, I mean, that was over actually about 2-3 weeks before that St. Patrick's Day. Right. Yeah. Okay, because he was Irish. Yes.
01:13:37 because he was Irish. Yes. Um page 49
01:13:41 please. Um we're at point one. Thank you. So, this reads, "When I went to see you that Monday, So, I think this is the 12th of March, 2007. This is through my own deductions,
01:13:54 2007. This is through my own deductions, but do correct me if you think that's wrong. It was the last day of my pill packet and I know I took it at irregular times for that pack. I didn't think I was going to sleep with you. I went to see you to sort out my head getting
01:14:05 see you to sort out my head getting [ __ ] up with you accusing me of [ __ ] other people. You know very well how vulnerable I am and your accusations were extremely inconsiderate and cowardly since you couldn't even say them to my face. They made me break down
01:14:16 them to my face. They made me break down to the point that I was encouraged to take medication." The paragraph two, you talk about how you've started on SSRIs, how you've been told they affect the efficacy of the
01:14:27 told they affect the efficacy of the contraceptive pill. If we look at them three, then you will ask, "What about before? Before when I was seeing you on a much more regular basis, I had more reason to take the pill regularly.
01:14:38 take the pill regularly. One time I also had experience to take control of the situation Sorry, that I had to take the pill regularly on time and I also had experience to take control of the situation when things went wrong. And then if we could just
01:14:50 went wrong. And then if we could just move down nine lines, please, to where it starts. Even if I was forgetful as I was at times, I had all the avenues at my disposal to prevent pregnancy, whatever happened, and you could have come in me all you
01:15:02 and you could have come in me all you liked, and I would have found a way not to get pregnant. Even without coming in me, you still have the potential to get me pregnant. I am an auntie to a child born out of the methods we used. So,
01:15:14 born out of the methods we used. So, believe me, I know it can happen as you do, too.
01:15:17 do, too. We can also go and visit her and her mother if you need even more proof, and ask her father, too. Before I started on my SSRIs, had you come in me all you wanted, I would have had little reason to fear pregnancy,
01:15:29 had little reason to fear pregnancy, even though now and again I did. I did not let you come in me out of fear of pregnancy, but mainly out of principle. I will not give up all of my body if I also have doubts about your feelings for
01:15:40 also have doubts about your feelings for me in the confusion of you telling me that you loved me, and then constantly questioning my fidelity, and not making time for me to even call to ask how the week was if we are too busy to meet.
01:15:52 week was if we are too busy to meet. So, there's just quite a lot to unpack there, just looking at the different aspects. When you say I am auntie to a child born out of all of the methods we used, is that a
01:16:04 of the methods we used, is that a reference to the withdrawal method? Yes. And is that a method that you used with Robert Hastings? Not um uh not
01:16:14 uh not uh not regularly, no, because when I thought we were in this very solid relationship up until before Christmas. Then I was on the pill. Yeah. And then
01:16:26 Then I was on the pill. Yeah. And then afterwards, I didn't get on the pill. Um and so and then and then it just I wasn't as careful because I just didn't
01:16:37 wasn't as careful because I just didn't um
01:16:38 um think it mattered that much. And then so if I knew I might have missed a week or so, then, you know Sure. Yeah. Um
01:16:47 Um can you help me with when you had the last time you had sexual intercourse with Robert Hastings before you sent this email? Had you used the withdrawal method?
01:16:57 method? Um or had you just had sex to completion?
01:17:03 Honestly, I can't recall. Right. Yeah. Um
01:17:08 Um when you refer here to I did not and I'm sorry cuz I know this is I know it's quite graphic. Yeah. Um when you say in this paragraph I did not let you come in me out of fear of
01:17:19 not let you come in me out of fear of pregnancy, but mainly out of principle, can you help me with what you're referring to there? Um I just felt like uh if
01:17:32 Yeah, I mean I just I just felt like because I was just unsure if he really loved me if fully, that, you know, so I just felt like it like a full ejaculation would mean
01:17:45 ejaculation would mean myself giving up to all the risks and yeah. So, does it follow from that that in the past you had said to him, "Please do not ejaculate inside me." Uh at times, yeah, but you know, most of
01:17:57 Uh at times, yeah, but you know, most of the time I was on the pill, but yes, but when I when I knew there was a risk like if I knew I'd missed a couple of days or something, then I would say like, "You know, we have to be very careful." Right. Yeah. Is that are those the terms
01:18:09 Right. Yeah. Is that are those the terms in which you would post it? Yes. And he would he then withdraw? Yeah.
01:18:14 Yeah. Use the withdrawal method?
01:18:20 Um he responds to this. I don't think we need to bring it up, but for reference, it's 38191, page 52. And it's an email dated the 5th of
01:18:33 And it's an email dated the 5th of April, 2007. So, that's being sent two days after your email. And he says, "Get in touch when you can. I got a confused text from you."
01:18:44 I got a confused text from you." He also says, "I also think you should know I didn't get any calls from you on Wednesday night. I've checked my phone. There were no missed calls showing or calls received. I checked back through my phone after Tuesday night. There
01:18:55 my phone after Tuesday night. There isn't anything shown. My phone has been on, too. My car was broken into." And he says, "We need to talk face-to-face." So, he seems to be attributing his lack
01:19:07 So, he seems to be attributing his lack of contact to his phone not functioning properly, or maybe his phone functioning properly and you maybe not telling the truth about when you contacted him. Um I I I believe that his
01:19:20 contacted him. Um I I I believe that his phone I mean, at that time I I believe that maybe his phone didn't function fun properly. I didn't get the sense that he was accusing me of um not texting him.
01:19:32 um not texting him. Yeah. Um
01:19:35 So, at the time you took this at face value. Yes. Uh what do you think now that you know who he is? Do you think he was being
01:19:45 was being honest here when he said his phone didn't work? being very honest uh now.
01:19:51 uh now. Yeah.
01:19:53 Um
01:19:56 Can you help us with what happened ultimately matters with the pregnancy scare?
01:20:01 scare? Oh, it turned out that I wasn't pregnant and that I have a different medical condition. Fine. And did you establish that? Did you go to the GP to have that verified? Yeah, I mean, I had to I I had a colon
01:20:13 Yeah, I mean, I had to I I had a colon No, don't don't It's all right. Don't You don't need to go into the details. That's fine. So,
01:20:18 So, which turned out to be wrong many years later, anyway. But then for many years I believed I had a different medical condition. Okay. Um
01:20:29 During the commission of your relationship with Robert Hastings, did you go to Atif Chaudhry at all? Yes. And
01:20:39 And what would you do? Would you confide in him? Would you ask him for advice? At times, yeah. I mean, at the beginning I didn't really tell Atif so much about our relationship because I just wanted to see how it was going. Sure. And you
01:20:50 to see how it was going. Sure. And you know, Atif was is like a big brother to me. So Yeah. you know, you know and get teased by your brother, right? And um so I I I didn't say like, "Oh, hey, I
01:21:03 so I I I didn't say like, "Oh, hey, I really fancy this guy." or anything like that. Or that we're going out. But as the relationship started getting a bit more tumultuous, then I, you know, then I did confide in him that, you know, uh
01:21:16 I did confide in him that, you know, uh I'm really distressed. He knew a little bit about the self-harm, but not too much. I mean, you know, not to the degree that I laid it out graphically in front of Rob, but when he could
01:21:27 front of Rob, but when he could actually see it physically as well. Yeah. Um
01:21:30 Yeah. Um And and uh yeah, so so Rob Well, basically, Atif knew that I was just not in a very healthy relationship with Rob. Yeah.
01:21:39 Yeah. Um Atif says this about it. This is at paragraph 3.14. We don't need to bring it up, but of his witness statement, which is page nine and the reference is 38195. He says,
01:21:52 38195. He says, "Through the relationship, Maya came to me on multiple occasions in distress about issues in the relationship. For example, that Rob had accused her of sleeping around. Or that she was worried that she had upset him and he would not be coming back.
01:22:04 be coming back. Maya would ask me to speak to Rob, but when I did so, Rob was dismissive in his response, making out the issues were just in Maya's head. On one occasion, Maya told me that Rob had woken suddenly during the night and
01:22:16 had woken suddenly during the night and told her that one day everyone would hate him. When I asked Rob about this, he denied it had ever happened." So, first of all, is that an accurate representation of the kind of things you
01:22:27 representation of the kind of things you would say to Atef about the relationship. Yes. Uh did Atef report back to you the fact that Rob was dismissive and said that the problems were in your head? No. No.
01:22:39 No. Um
01:22:40 Um the occasion he refers to when Rob woke up in the night and said one day everyone was going to hate him. Is that accurate? Uh well, honestly, I don't remember that time, but I do
01:22:52 don't remember that time, but I do remember that Rob would some come out sometimes come out with these sort of statements like, "Oh, you know, not that everybody's going to hate me." Yeah, he did say that, but also, "Oh,
01:23:05 Yeah, he did say that, but also, "Oh, you know,
01:23:06 you know, um
01:23:07 um one day
01:23:09 one day uh you won't know I'm going to write a book about you, but you won't know that it's you." And he would make it it was very mixed because then, you know, on one hand he would profess his dedication to me, so I
01:23:21 profess his dedication to me, so I believe that we would have a life together, and then other times he would talk as if he was going to go away and not see me again. Right. And, you know, one day I'll write you a letter from
01:23:32 one day I'll write you a letter from where I am, or one day I'll make sure you know, these kind of Mhm. uh things, yeah, he would he would come out with at times. Yeah. And again, was that quite confusing at the time? It was very confusing. And, you know, uh
01:23:45 It was very confusing. And, you know, uh yeah, and then for Atef, he you know, he was like my big brother, just consoling me, you know, just sort of comforting, making sure he's like, "Everything's all right. If this, you know, if this guy doesn't turn out to be
01:23:56 know, if this guy doesn't turn out to be good, you know, there will be other men in their life, and you know, Yeah. So, was he a comfort to you? Yes. Um looking now at how that how your relationship with Robert Hastings ended
01:24:07 relationship with Robert Hastings ended in 2007, how did it end? Um
01:24:12 Um well, he
01:24:14 well, he basically said that his it was
01:24:22 You know, it's difficult to know when it really ended because it was just some like every few times you'd think it was ended and then he would just show up. Um
01:24:32 Um I remember when I was visiting a friend of mine
01:24:37 of mine and and we had been arguing again. I think this is shortly after this pregnancy scare in in the spring. Yeah. And then he sent me a text saying we're done.
01:24:48 done. Shortly after the pregnancy scare. So this is spring 2007. Yes.
01:24:52 Yes. Yeah. And he he cuz I remember going what does that mean? We're done and that was it and then I couldn't hear from him again for some weeks and
01:25:02 and yeah cuz I remember being extremely distressed distressed at my friend's house Right. uh when I received that text message. Yeah. And so that was it. We're done. Yeah.
01:25:13 We're done. Yeah. No face-to-face meeting. Yeah, but then of course I tried to contact him again and we did get to contact each other again and he came to see me so it was very confusing
01:25:26 came to see me so it was very confusing when did it end? Cuz it wasn't a clean Yes. break.
01:25:30 break. Um
01:25:34 You refer in your witness statement to an incident where after receiving this message where you tried to ring him or you did ring him from a phone box near Euston. Can you just tell us what happened? Yeah, I I
01:25:46 happened? Yeah, I I you know, I had tried to ring him so many times and it just would not go through so I assumed he'd blocked my number
01:25:54 number and
01:25:56 and and also he so so what I did was yeah, happened to be I think probably because my
01:26:02 my I studied nearby Yeah. and so I went to a phone booth and finally I got through to him and he just told me to [ __ ] off.
01:26:13 to him and he just told me to [ __ ] off. And that just you know, when I got through and then that's that just broke me down, and I just started weeping uncontrollably and shaking in the phone booth, and and I
01:26:26 shaking in the phone booth, and and I just couldn't get up, and I was sat down, and people walked by and just asked if I was okay. I felt extremely embarrassed that I wasn't able to even sit up.
01:26:34 sit up. Yeah.
01:26:37 And I think you've answered my next question, that the effect on you was, if I understand correctly, it was devastating. Yeah. Um but because the relationship had been so sort of dysfunctional up until this
01:26:48 so sort of dysfunctional up until this point, it was also hard to really understand whether or not it was actually over. Is that Yes. fair? Yeah. Um
01:26:58 Um this is just a small factual point, Maya, that there's um an email that you write him, a long email, I think after he's ended things by text message.
01:27:09 by text message. Um
01:27:11 Um It's dated the 20th of April, 2007. Mhm. Um I don't need to bring it up, but on page 54, actually, sorry, page 56, it's the penultimate paragraph,
01:27:24 the penultimate paragraph, you say this to him. You say, "I know you don't want to speak to me or see me, but you can understand why I want to. I asked for simple things, like helping me pick up boxes, and even that you didn't do, even though I told you I would wait
01:27:36 do, even though I told you I would wait for you running late in traffic. Since there was time, asked you to meet me so I could discuss with you my fear of pregnancy, wanted just kind words or support in the pregnancy scare, and even that you didn't do, and accused me of
01:27:47 that you didn't do, and accused me of playing games and being disrespectful. And yes, we have only met twice in 4 months. So, tell me how I have been demanding and time consuming." Is that accurate that you've only met twice in 4
01:27:59 accurate that you've only met twice in 4 months? Um yeah, I guess so. Yeah. So, 2007, more or less, you hadn't actually seen that much of one another.
01:28:10 Um you've referred to this, how it was not in fact a clean break though after the conversation you had in the pay well, it's not a conversation after he
01:28:21 well, it's not a conversation after he told you to [ __ ] off when you rang him from the phone box. Um can you tell us or help us roughly with when you next had contact with him after that? Um
01:28:33 after that? Um I think
01:28:34 I think I don't know if it was May or June. Yeah. So early summer, not midsummer then. I don't know. remember.
01:28:41 remember. And he I think I don't know if that was the last cuz yeah, we didn't have many encounters then. But I remember
01:28:53 But I remember I think we did have a sexual encounter though. Oh, do you think after the Yeah, after the phone box and that I I what it's my my memory's a bit fuzzy
01:29:05 what it's my my memory's a bit fuzzy with that part. So I'm sorry about that. Um
01:29:09 Um cuz I I do remember one time like going to his house um
01:29:16 um to confront him or just like see okay, maybe a last goodbye or something. I don't I don't even know, but I do remember that I was wearing a short dress.
01:29:25 dress. Yeah. And so if it was in the winter it would have been too cold. I would have had a jumper and things on. And it was during daytime. And you think it was summer 2007? Possibly. Yeah, this I think that was in
01:29:37 Possibly. Yeah, this I think that was in the spring and then I remember him uh com- coming to the house uh
01:29:47 yeah, maybe early June, late May um at night. Yeah. He he called me from a phone box. It wasn't his number anymore. And he called me from phone
01:29:58 anymore. And he called me from phone box, asked me to meet him outside the house.
01:30:01 house. Right. Uh you know, there's yeah, again the same wall there's a wall nearby by the car Yeah, And um he was just saying that uh yeah, it's not safe for him to use his phone. Right. And that he had to
01:30:14 use his phone. Right. And that he had to go away.
01:30:15 go away. Right. Uh cuz his mom was ill and he was yeah. Okay. So, was the sexual encounter before or after that? Before. Before. And can you just help us with just briefly what happened during that sexual
01:30:27 briefly what happened during that sexual encounter? I mean, did he seek to explain himself at all? No. Did he apologize for ending the relationship? No.
01:30:34 No. Did he make promises about the future? No, he he didn't. He was just oh wow, I'm so happy to see you. And then he quickly got me into bed. And he came round to your house, was that?
01:30:46 he came round to your house, was that? Or were you round at his house? at his place in Bow Road. How did you end up at his place? Uh I must have taken the DLR and walked, you know. Uh yeah. And how did you come to be there? Did he invite you? Uh yeah, I think so.
01:30:59 Did he invite you? Uh yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah. I don't remember. I know, I think it was more I went there and then I texted him and just said like, are you at home or whatever? And he said I I was like,
01:31:10 whatever? And he said I I was like, well, I'm near your house, you know. Yeah. Can you come out? Cuz I remember him coming out being very surprised. Right. Yeah. But did he seem pleased to see you? Yes.
01:31:21 Um you refer in your witness statement also to
01:31:26 also to him coming to collect you from a friend's house. Can you help us with what happened on that occasion? Um If you know what I'm talking about, I can Yeah, yeah. I
01:31:37 can Yeah, yeah. I I I I was at a friend's house and it was also around near Bow area. Um and
01:31:46 Um and uh yeah, no. So, you know, I told him that I'm in the area or whatever. And then he said, I'll drop you off home. So, I I remember he just drove me home. Um can you help us with your
01:31:59 Um can you help us with your mental state at this time, Maya? So, we're talking summer 2007. What sort of state were you in emotionally and mentally? Emotionally by that time, I was slightly calmer. Yeah.
01:32:10 calmer. Yeah. Um especially cuz quite a lot of the months into the spring, I was worried that I was pregnant or I could be pregnant and if I had taken substances or self-harmed or something that this
01:32:22 or self-harmed or something that this would be detrimental for a potential, you know, Yeah. for a said potential baby.
01:32:26 baby. And
01:32:28 And um
01:32:31 And then by that time, I also felt that I'm seeking uh you know, professional help Right. for my mental health. Yeah. Uh so, I was somewhat calmer, but
01:32:44 Yeah. Uh so, I was somewhat calmer, but also cuz I'd been like sort of holding out for the, you know, possible and like I had to keep my wits about in case I was pregnant. Right. Okay. Once you found out you weren't pregnant, um
01:32:55 um so, if I understand correctly, you felt better. That was a relief. That was a relief, but yeah. But then there was still that silence with Rob, so there was this distress that was, you know,
01:33:07 was this distress that was, you know, leading up to before I found out I was you know, like breaking down in a phone box. Um
01:33:13 box. Um and
01:33:14 and uh
01:33:16 uh yeah, I just thought like I have to I don't know. I I It was a calmer period. It wasn't as intense as it was
01:33:27 period. It wasn't as intense as it was uh before Christmas. Um
01:33:29 Um can you help us? You refer in your witness statement to taking drugs. Yes. Can you help us with how you came to start taking drugs and when that was? Uh that was in the summer, probably August.
01:33:42 that was in the summer, probably August. Right. And I um
01:33:47 Yeah, then Rob said he had to go away. And I just I just got very lost. And I thought, well, I can't I just didn't know how to cope with myself. I was still trying to keep my
01:33:59 myself. I was still trying to keep my wits about, and I had a friend who I would visit regularly for many years, even before that, like since 2000. Uh we had met um who was a heroin
01:34:10 Uh we had met um who was a heroin addict. Mhm. And you know, I used to sometimes nurse her when she went through withdrawal periods. Um
01:34:19 Um and and so by the summer, I thought, well, he's gone. And I you know, what do I have to live for? And I just like
01:34:31 And I just like felt
01:34:33 felt that there was just no point to live anymore. Yeah. But I
01:34:39 But I uh
01:34:40 uh I didn't uh
01:34:43 Yeah, I I Well, I don't know how to explain it. I just wanted to sleep and never wake up. Mhm. So,
01:34:50 Mhm. So, I
01:34:51 I uh I asked my friend who had been for years keeping me at arm's length away from drugs, you know, it's just you know, she's like, "Never get into this. You can You've seen the damage it's done to me."
01:35:02 to me." You know, that once you touch this, you'll be addicted. But I just didn't care, and it's very easy to convince an addict anyway. Yeah. You know, you can just just convince Nobody Just a little
01:35:13 just just convince Nobody Just a little bit. I'll give you a tenner. I'll give you know. Yeah. Uh and and you know, of course, their temptation overrides their concern for me. So, um that's So, you know, I
01:35:25 So, you know, I hadn't and hadn't even smoked cigarettes in my life then, let alone a spliff, and I just went straight to heroin. It smelled good. Yeah. Um
01:35:36 Um when you refer to Robert Hastings dropping you off when you were nearby in Bow, is this a reference to when you were in Woolwich? No. So, is that another occasion?
01:35:48 No. So, is that another occasion? That's another occasion. Okay. So, can you tell us what what happened when you were in Woolwich at this friend's house. Right. So, um
01:35:56 um so, yeah, by that time I had started taking heroin. I was still I was smoking heroin.
01:36:02 heroin. Can I ask how often were you doing that? Uh it just escalated. So, at first it would be like maybe £10 a day. And then one time I just realized I was spending £100 in one day.
01:36:14 spending £100 in one day. So, then over what time period did it escalate to that extent? I mean, total I took heroin for about 3 months. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so I understand from your witness statement Christmas you got clean. So, we're talking sort of summer
01:36:26 clean. So, we're talking sort of summer Yeah. to Christmas 2007. Yes. And then uh Rob had been communicating with me either through the blogs or through uh
01:36:37 either through the blogs or through uh email. Yeah. And then uh text very rarely, but then he did ask where I was and stuff. And so, I explained that I'm at this house in
01:36:49 explained that I'm at this house in Woolwich.
01:36:50 Woolwich. And that I am smoking Yeah. heroin and stuff. And he said he'll come and pick me up and take me home. Yeah. Right. Okay. So, he was aware as far as you're aware that you were using heroin. Yes.
01:37:04 aware that you were using heroin. Yes. And can you help us with that trip back in the car? Just the nature of your interaction with one another. Was it loving? Was it friendly? Was it
01:37:16 loving? Was it friendly? Was it Yeah, it was very calm. Yeah. Um I And it wasn't a very long ride back from there to the co-op. It's maybe about 15 minutes.
01:37:27 about 15 minutes. Right. So, it's very quick. Yeah, it's it's not a long distance. And um I just said, "Yeah, I just don't know what to do anymore. And this is what I've started doing. And how are you? And
01:37:39 I've started doing. And how are you? And how's your mom?" And so, I was more concerned about him and his mom, really. Yeah. Did he show any concern for you in anything he said or did? I mean the fact
01:37:50 anything he said or did? I mean the fact you were using Uh no, just to say like, you know, this is no good for you and don't get into it and, you know, you you should, you know, but more like you're a grown woman and, you know, you should
01:38:01 grown woman and, you know, you should know better and you have to be responsible for yourself. That sort of thing.
01:38:05 thing. Um
01:38:06 Um we don't need to bring it up, but there's an email from him to you in your exhibit uh dated the 16th of May, 2008, so the following spring to summer. It's page 65 of 38191
01:38:19 spring to summer. It's page 65 of 38191 and at the end of paragraph five going into paragraph six of that email, he says, "So, you had better have been taking care of yourself and staying away from Woolwich. Silver foil is of no
01:38:31 from Woolwich. Silver foil is of no benefit whatsoever and I hope that by now you have realized that to be true." So, is that a reference to the conversation you had that day in Woolwich or to something else as far as
01:38:42 Woolwich or to something else as far as you're aware? Um I think referring to the conversation we had in Woolwich because I did uh
01:38:49 uh have a blog where I would then refer to heroin use as silver foil or caramel or brown sugar or, you know, these kind of words and that was um
01:39:02 words and that was um So, I think he knew that I was using things even after I had not seen him again. Right. Uh because I would [ __ ] I wouldn't write that in an email to him, but I would
01:39:14 him, but I would I would just express my own heroin use in the blog. But by this stage, actually, by May 2008, you were no longer taking heroin. no longer taking it then. Um
01:39:26 So, that's 2008. Um can you help us, Myra, just briefly with the extent of your contact between 2008 and 2009? Did you see him in person at
01:39:38 and 2009? Did you see him in person at all over that period? No, I mean I didn't see him until 2014. Right. So, 2007 was the last time I saw him before 2014. Um we can see in the
01:39:50 him before 2014. Um we can see in the exhibit that there was email contact um over that period. Um
01:39:59 if we look at We'll look at a couple of those emails just to get a sense of the tenor of those exchanges. Um the email that I just referred to uh P8191, page 65. This is an email from
01:40:13 uh P8191, page 65. This is an email from him to you dated the 16th of May, 2008. It's tab A2, the penultimate paragraph. We've already looked at the bit about silver foil. The penultimate paragraph,
01:40:24 silver foil. The penultimate paragraph, he said, "And then there is you, the girl with the huge smile and the insatiable curiosity about life and the endless doubts about herself. The last time I saw you we we hugged and I kissed your forehead and I told you to
01:40:36 I kissed your forehead and I told you to be safe.
01:40:37 be safe. I hope you listened. I hope too that despite the pain we may have caused each other, there are moments when that isn't all you can remember and the ice cream on the pebbled beach can still be
01:40:48 on the pebbled beach can still be tasted."
01:40:50 tasted." So, the the kiss on the forehead that he refers to, is that a reference to when he picked you up from Woolwich?
01:40:57 Woolwich? Yes. Right. Um the reference to the ice cream on the pebble beach, is that the date in Brighton? Yes. Um
01:41:08 he refers here to the pain we may have caused each other. So,
01:41:15 So, he always gave you to understand always giving you to understand that you caused him a lot of pain. Yes.
01:41:22 Yes. Um
01:41:25 this paragraph, did this give you the impression that he was still interested in you or did you just take it as highfalutin? I don't know. It it it it's uh I took it
01:41:38 I don't know. It it it it's uh I took it that he really cared for me deeply and it's just that, you know, because um
01:41:45 um he had to take care of his mom is why he had to be away. Right. So, it wasn't his choice, as it were, to not be with you. It was circumstances Yes. getting in the way. Um so, I'm
01:41:56 Yes. getting in the way. Um so, I'm aware of the time. It might be time to get a main break. Um 10 minutes, all right? Yeah. Uh 10 minutes break sufficient for you. Um so, that we
01:42:05 that we uh my Lord in particular have some idea of how much longer we're going to be. I think we can finish by 5:00. Yes. That's including the uh road journey gap. Yes. Um we we'll um rise now for 10 minutes,
01:42:17 Um we we'll um rise now for 10 minutes, then come back, then all evidence from you, then there's another gap while questions are asked uh of uh counsel for the to the inquiry, uh and then you may be re-examined after
01:42:28 and then you may be re-examined after that as well, but we're not too far off the end now. Okay. Good.
01:45:29 Mhm.
01:47:24 Mhm.
01:49:19 Mhm.
01:53:09 Mhm.
01:55:04 Mhm.
01:59:04 Maya, moving now to when your relationship with Robert Hastings rekindled in 2014. Looking at the email correspondence, it
01:59:16 Looking at the email correspondence, it seems that the last time you had contact was on the 26th of February, 2010, when he sent you
01:59:27 26th of February, 2010, when he sent you an email. Just for reference, that is at 38191, page 71. And it seems that then over the ensuing period until
01:59:39 over the ensuing period until the 8th of August, 2014, there was no contact. Is that accurate? Until uh from when? Sorry, from the 26th of February,
01:59:50 Sorry, from the 26th of February, 2010.
01:59:52 2010. Oh, in terms of email contact, yes. Yes, email contact. Was there any other form of contact? No.
01:59:58 No. Um
01:59:59 Um I understand that when he got back in touch, it was on the 8th of August, 2014,
02:00:07 2014, and he left a comment on your blog. Yeah. And you refer to this at paragraph 4.68 of your witness statement. And this comment was, and you exhibit this as well, at 38193, page 7. He commented,
02:00:19 well, at 38193, page 7. He commented, "Love is Love remains saddened by absence. Hazel bright shines with love forever."
02:00:28 How did you feel when you saw this on your blog? Um
02:00:36 shocked. Uh
02:00:39 Uh because it just felt like a ghost just came out of thin air.
02:00:47 In the intervening years, Maya, how had you been doing? Um I had gotten better. I had um
02:00:57 um uh
02:00:59 uh begun a relationship with somebody from my own community. Yeah.
02:01:04 Yeah. And um
02:01:07 And um and he was very helpful in the journey of healing. So, when I was with him, I was still on medication, but he would you know, be very uh sympathetic to the fact that I was recovering. Yeah.
02:01:20 fact that I was recovering. Yeah. Um and
02:01:22 Um and the relationship was very um
02:01:28 well, in our culture, almost a marriage. So, yeah. Not an official marriage, but Not an official marriage, but if you live with somebody, then you're as good as married.
02:01:39 as married. Yeah. And when did that relationship become as serious as that? Um
02:01:46 2015. I think
02:01:49 I think sometime in 2010 11. Yeah, I'm not
02:01:57 Were you still thinking about Robert Hastings, or had you forgotten about him? I did. I did think about him, but um I was really trying to put him behind
02:02:08 I was really trying to put him behind me. Yeah.
02:02:11 me. Yeah. Um you refer to the comment on the blog, you responded, and then he resumes email contact on the 28th of August 2014.
02:02:22 contact on the 28th of August 2014. Yeah.
02:02:22 Yeah. Um
02:02:24 Um just a one-line email in which he says, "Let me know you are okay." And you respond to him. Yes. Why did you respond to that? Well, because I had worried where he'd
02:02:36 Well, because I had worried where he'd been all these years. Yeah.
02:02:39 So, yeah, so I responded to that. Yeah. Yeah. Check that he was okay. So So, so you still cared for him. You still had residual feelings. And if we could just have a look at
02:02:52 And if we could just have a look at his response to your email, which is 38191, page 73. This is tab A2. It's an email from him dated the 31st of 30, sorry, 31st of August 2014.
02:03:06 30, sorry, 31st of August 2014. Uh paragraph one. So, your an email to which he's responding is underneath. This is his response to you. He says, "I completely understand. How many more gray hairs and wrinkles could you forgive or ignore? Even shining hazel
02:03:19 forgive or ignore? Even shining hazel eyes dull with time and age and perhaps bitterness and regret. Our time was cut short in the worst possible way accelerated by the inconsiderate intervention of supposed friends." Can
02:03:31 intervention of supposed friends." Can you help us with what he's referring to there? Is this Is this a reference to your friends telling you that he was no good for you or something else? No, I think uh I think he's hinting at perhaps
02:03:44 hinting at perhaps um
02:03:44 um my neighbors, who are also my friends, but not the same as you know. So, I think he's uh
02:03:50 uh because uh
02:03:55 Yeah, cuz I I I really don't really understand that this to be honest because my own friends were not like, "Oh, he's no good for you." You know, he he hadn't really met many of my friends. Yeah.
02:04:05 Yeah. Um
02:04:07 Um and I imagine also like with him saying supposed friends is who thought he thought were his friends. Right. So, I feel that
02:04:17 feel that he somehow also slightly might have blamed Atef as an older brother looking out for me to
02:04:26 me to uh
02:04:28 uh be part of uh I don't know, listen to their counsel saying you you're in a toxic relationship, get out of this. but
02:04:36 but um
02:04:36 um but essentially he's attributing the ending of your relationship to external factors, yes, not to do with him. Um, paragraph three, he says, "I knocked
02:04:47 Um, paragraph three, he says, "I knocked at your old house recently, finally able to walk to your door. A young woman answered shyly and with the door opened with a security chain in place. Maya has not lived here here for years, she said
02:04:58 not lived here here for years, she said bluntly. Maybe I am chasing a ghost." What did you make of that at the time? Uh, he
02:05:05 Uh, he I made of it that he really cared for me, that he still wanted to, you know, like even after all these years, considering that he felt that
02:05:16 considering that he felt that um,
02:05:16 um, our time was cut short in a tragic way. Or so then, you know, that it was not out of his choosing that we separated and he was coming to find me again.
02:05:28 and he was coming to find me again. Right. So, casting it in this sort of poetic Yes. romantic light. Yes. Um, we can see from the emails, we don't need to bring them up, but that he kind
02:05:39 need to bring them up, but that he kind of doubles down on this romantic language. Um, for example, uh,
02:05:46 uh, in an email dated the 2nd of September 2014 at 38191, page 74, he says that when I smell vanilla, I always
02:05:57 says that when I smell vanilla, I always think of you and despite what you may have been told, I was only ever yours, yours alone. So, becoming really quite overtly romantic in inverted commas.
02:06:09 romantic in inverted commas. Mhm.
02:06:10 Mhm. Um, in that same email, he says that I have missed you is undeniable. I was stupid and selfish and lacked compassion is equally true. If they say that you only truly hurt the ones you love, then I'm indeed guilty of that crime, a
02:06:22 I'm indeed guilty of that crime, a burden I bear and remember with much regret.
02:06:27 regret. Uh, so unusually for him, he seems to be admitting fault here. Yeah. Um, what did you make of that at the time? Did you feel that this was evidence of
02:06:38 Did you feel that this was evidence of him gaining insights perhaps into his behavior over the intervening years? I mean when when he says I was you know, it's kind of like making a fault not a fault. You know,
02:06:49 making a fault not a fault. You know, like oh, I'm guilty of loving you too much sort of you know, that's not really somebody admitting to taking a accountability but just inverting it. Yeah. Sure.
02:07:00 Sure. I don't really know the technical term for that but Yeah. Yeah. Like sorry not sorry sort of thing. Yeah. Um
02:07:06 Yeah. Um he says at the end of that email, we will meet. Of that I am sure and perhaps the words of an old print will come true. Come with me and go away. So it
02:07:16 So it he's really intensifying the
02:07:21 proposition he appears to be making to you. Again, what did you make of that at the time? Was it a bit overwhelming? Were you gratified? overwhelming. It It was like I felt relieved that he
02:07:34 I felt relieved that he had not left because of me. I thought part of it was cuz he was repelled by me, the self-harm, the you know, the mental
02:07:45 self-harm, the you know, the mental instability. Uh you know, aside from his mom being very ill but I also felt that it was partially my fault. And that his lack of contact cuz even if though he had to go
02:07:57 contact cuz even if though he had to go away uh to be with his mom Yeah. you know, that his lack of contact with me was
02:08:04 was really a lot to do with uh maybe yeah, he just didn't like me. You know what I mean? You know, cuz the yeah. So I I thought uh oh, I didn't realize that he's you
02:08:17 uh oh, I didn't realize that he's you know, still burning a candle for me all these years. Yeah. Sure. So it was a boost in a way to your self-esteem. Yeah. And
02:08:25 And now we're going to have to hear from Robert Hastings on this, but what I can say is that at this time in his life that he was experiencing quite a lot of turmoil both professionally and personally. And
02:08:40 professionally and personally. And in 2014
02:08:44 sometime before this, he was arrested for an incident, and he ended up at the end of that year being dismissed from the Metropolitan Police. Obviously, you didn't know he was a policeman. Did he make any reference to
02:08:57 policeman. Did he make any reference to you by text? There's nothing in the emails to the fact that things were not going very well in his life.
02:09:05 life. No, not at all. Not at all. He He didn't um
02:09:10 um Yeah.
02:09:12 Yeah. Nothing Nothing even in conversation when I went back to him. He He did not say, "Oh, things have been so bad in my life." And what not. No.
02:09:23 life." And what not. No. Um he says this in his witness statement. This is three We don't need to bring it up, but for reference, 3557. This is page 96, paragraph 203.
02:09:34 This is page 96, paragraph 203. Um this is the H and 18 bundle at tab A1, sir. And he says this, "There came a point in 2014 where I started to meet up again with Maya." We'll come to that. But he says, "We rekindled our relationship. It was This was not
02:09:45 relationship. It was This was not pre-planned. I simply wanted to see her again. I was in a very difficult position at the time both personally and professionally, and in some part I associated Maya with a period of time
02:09:56 associated Maya with a period of time when I was genuinely happy in my life."
02:10:03 Now that you know what was going on in his own life, how do you feel about him having rekindled the relationship for these reasons? Um For selfish reasons. Yeah, no, just
02:10:17 Um For selfish reasons. Yeah, no, just terrible.
02:10:18 terrible. You know, I just feel it doesn't Yeah. Uh
02:10:25 Uh it's it's quite a bit still to process and Yeah. uh to find out I I don't um
02:10:36 find out I I don't um in a in a sense like the more I've gotten to understand the nature of this inquiry and the in sort of information that comes out it just
02:10:48 it just the less I believe what I read. Yes. And so with you know, just even just simple things like the happiest our happy time in our life, it just
02:11:00 our happy time in our life, it just makes me think, well, we had a very toxic relationship and um
02:11:07 um yeah, you know, I wasn't very you know, I was crying all the time and even his emails show that he was concerned for me. So I don't see how that was a very happy
02:11:19 I don't see how that was a very happy happy time. Yeah.
02:11:23 Yeah. Um we've seen how he's ramping up the the wooing for want of a better word in the email contact. He also starts to ramp up, it seems, the sexual language. Yes. We'll just look at
02:11:35 sexual language. Yes. We'll just look at that briefly. Um if we could bring up 38191,
02:11:39 38191, page 80. This is an email from him to you sent on the 7th of September 2014. The context is he seems to have watched a video featuring you.
02:11:50 a video featuring you. Paragraph two, he says, "It was the Maya that I fell in love with, beautiful, articulate, intellectually curious, with an impish sense of fun and bright shiny eyes that I remember gazing into as I
02:12:01 eyes that I remember gazing into as I licked and laughed and you licked and laughed.
02:12:05 laughed. I'm so confused right now, lost on a swell of emotion. Is it idealism that captivates, the memories of warm feelings and laughter, the complete the completeness of physical warmth?"
02:12:16 completeness of physical warmth?" Um so it's a combination really of referring in quite graphic terms to sex with you, but also this very heightened language that he seems to
02:12:27 heightened language that he seems to like using. Um, can you remember the effect of this email on you at the time? Again, were you taken aback by this? Was it I was taken a bit aback by this. Uh, and
02:12:38 I was taken a bit aback by this. Uh, and I also,
02:12:39 I also, you know, for him to say that, oh, he just simply wanted to see me, but then he was already being quite both sexual and romantic before we even
02:12:51 both sexual and romantic before we even met again. Yeah.
02:12:53 Yeah. Yeah.
02:12:54 Yeah. Um, he sent you an email. We don't need to bring it up, but on the 7th of September 2014, this is at page 82 on 38191.
02:13:05 this is at page 82 on 38191. And he says to you, "Did you love me truly?"
02:13:10 truly?" And your response to this, which is uh, page 83 on the bottom of the page, and you said this on the same day, very soon after, so 11 minutes later. And you said this. You said, "I did, and
02:13:21 And you said this. You said, "I did, and so often wished I didn't, but I'm glad I did."
02:13:25 did." I just want to take you now to his reaction to that email from you. Uh, this is page 83, the top of the page, tab A2. He wrote this.
02:13:36 He wrote this. "So make yourself available. You never told me, yet you broke my heart. I imagine you never told me that you loved him truly." is what he seems to be suggesting. Uh-huh.
02:13:46 Uh-huh. "Yet you broke my heart. I loved you. You broke my heart. I wanted to be with you forever. You broke my heart. I thought about a family. You broke my heart. You listened to friends, in inverted commas. You broke my heart. I
02:13:59 inverted commas. You broke my heart. I never satisfied you, you said. You broke my heart. I was never enough, you said. You broke my heart."
02:14:10 First of all, so make yourself available.
02:14:17 To a third party, that sounds quite bullying. Mhm. Is that how you interpreted it at the time?
02:14:22 time? Uh
02:14:22 Uh Or did you see it as romantic? Uh
02:14:30 angry and romantic. Uh yeah.
02:14:35 Uh yeah. I mean
02:14:36 I mean also confused. Well, not him, but yeah, I didn't see that as him being confused. I I was very confused with this message. Yeah.
02:14:45 Yeah. Well, he appears to be claiming that you were the one who broke his heart. You were the one who mistreated him. Is that a fair interpretation? When in fact, that really wasn't the case. Is that No, and it just it it hurt
02:14:57 case. Is that No, and it just it it hurt me and it worried me as well. It worried me because I I've worried again for him. Yeah. That I must have hurt him so badly and not known how badly I'd hurt him.
02:15:09 and not known how badly I'd hurt him. Uh and uh at the same time it made me angry cuz like what do you mean you I broke it What do you mean I never told you I loved you and and that I broke
02:15:22 you I loved you and and that I broke your heart, yeah. Yeah. So, he's misrepresenting Yeah. what happened. Um this reference there's there is you refer to this and there's evidence of it in the emails. This reference to I
02:15:34 of it in the emails. This reference to I never satisfied you, said I was never enough for you, you said. This is something he's mentioned previously about you having apparently said to him that he was never enough for you sexually. Is that a reference to that? Well,
02:15:48 reference to that? Well, I think he's making the reference, but I never said that to him. Right. So, yeah, also it I didn't even understand um
02:16:00 um when he wrote that that first time when I read that when he I didn't even take that as a sexual uh
02:16:07 uh thing. I just he meant in terms of love. Right. As in romantic love. Right. Yeah. But he interpreted it, it seems, just for reference again, he mentions that he reproaches you with that in an email
02:16:19 reproaches you with that in an email sent on the 2nd of September 2014. That's page 75 of 38191. And he says to you, "One last thing, I remember you said I'd never been enough you physically. That never left me."
02:16:31 you physically. That never left me." Yeah.
02:16:32 Yeah. Uh so he
02:16:34 Uh so he is implying that he interpreted it as him not being sexually adequate for you. Yes.
02:16:39 Yes. Is that how you understood him to be portraying it? Yeah, so this kind of uh that the the first email that you showed me, that I did not interpret that as sexually. Yeah. But in the other one where he was
02:16:51 Yeah. But in the other one where he was very you know, explicit to say that I was not physically yeah, adequate like that that I had accused him for being physically inadequate. Uh I mean, that that you that was pretty clear. Right.
02:17:02 that you that was pretty clear. Right. But you're saying you didn't do that. No. And so, how did you feel when he appears to be reproaching you with having said that? Very confused. I was very confused thinking like
02:17:15 I was very confused thinking like gosh, is that is that what he remembers? Cuz I don't remember any of that.
02:17:21 Um there's some toing and froing, back and forth, uh email correspondence. You arrange to meet on the 11th of September 2014, and you do meet in Hillyfields in
02:17:34 2014, and you do meet in Hillyfields in Ladywell.
02:17:35 Ladywell. Can you tell us what it was like when you saw him again? Um
02:17:43 it was just like like he just appeared like a mirage, but he was so different. Yeah. You know, he just looked completely different to the Rob I had seen Oh.
02:17:54 the Rob I had seen Oh. I had last seen in 2007. Yeah. He
02:17:58 Yeah. He you know, when I had seen him in 2007, he was very You know, the last time before that he was very physically fit. Yeah. You know, he liked going to the gym. He had long
02:18:11 he liked going to the gym. He had long dark brown hair and an earring, you know, and then this time he was in a suit. He had a briefcase.
02:18:22 briefcase. He, you know, suit and tie. He had a buzz cut and he he was um far more overweight and also his uh hair had turned white Well,
02:18:33 hair had turned white Well, very, you know, salt and pepper. Yeah. Um but yeah, a a lot of white hair. So, he just looked completely different from how I remembered him. Did you have a strong emotional reaction to
02:18:45 you have a strong emotional reaction to seeing him or not really? I did. I I had a strong emotional reaction because I just thought, "Wow, this You know, I I thought this person was a ghost and here he is in front of me." Yeah. Were you happy to see him?
02:18:57 me." Yeah. Were you happy to see him? I was.
02:18:58 I was. How did he react to seeing you again? Um
02:19:03 Um emotional. He he he reacted quite emotional when he spoke to me as well. Like I mean, he didn't run and hug me, you know. It wasn't like a
02:19:15 wasn't like a It wasn't like some movie or so, but he you know, he said, "Okay, let's sit down at this bench." And we sat down and he looked quite
02:19:26 looked quite emotional and teary, like he was just about to cry. Yeah. Did you
02:19:35 Did you start talking quite about quite
02:19:41 Well, about your relationship or and quite uh
02:19:46 profound topics or was it all quite superficial? Oh, no, it was just the sort of like, "How have you been? You know, where have you been?" Uh "How are you doing? And, you
02:19:58 been?" Uh "How are you doing? And, you know, uh, asked about his mom, and he told me that he had to bury his mom alone, and it made me feel very sorry that all these years he had been on his
02:20:09 that all these years he had been on his own. Right. Um, and he told me that he had never been with any other woman since he had last seen me uh, since in in 2007,
02:20:20 uh, since in in 2007, and that he would not be able and he couldn't stop thinking of of me. And now that he's moved out, and he told me that he was living nearby. Right. Um, he gave
02:20:31 he was living nearby. Right. Um, he gave me details, which were quite surprising to how I thought he was, cuz he said that one of his flatmates was a policewoman. And he used to always say very bad things about the police. So, I was just
02:20:43 things about the police. So, I was just very surprised that he lived with a policewoman. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
02:20:50 Um, did he ask you about your relationship status? Yes, he did. He did, and I told him that I was in a relationship. I had been in a relationship then for nearly five Well, yeah, 5 years.
02:21:04 for nearly five Well, yeah, 5 years. Yeah. Um, and uh, yeah. So, I told him a little bit about how I was hoping to study for a PhD, that I was applying for that, that
02:21:15 PhD, that I was applying for that, that I was working, and I lived nearby. Yeah. How did he react to your telling him you were in a serious relationship? Um, he acted as if he was
02:21:26 acted as if he was like a little hurt.
02:21:30 Uh, like, oh, you know. Mhm. Uh, it looked like his face had just fallen. Yeah. Crestfallen, like Yeah. So, disappointed. Yes. Um,
02:21:43 how long were you together in Hillyfields on this occasion? I'd say at least a good hour, maybe 2 hours.
02:21:52 hours. And
02:21:54 And Again, when you parted and on what terms did you part? Was it with a promise to see one another again? Yes. Right. Yeah. Did
02:22:01 Did But it wasn't like, "Oh, I'm in love with you. Let's drop everything." It was It was like, "Okay, well, this is our life and you know, uh yeah." So, from your perspective, you
02:22:13 uh yeah." So, from your perspective, you were willing to meet up with him again as friends? Is that what you were thinking? Yeah. Um
02:22:20 Um He sends you an email the following day. This is at 38191, page 90. Um
02:22:30 Um Sent on the 12th of September. It's tab A2, four paragraphs up from the bottom. And he says this. He says, "I am no narcissist as much as I love Ovid. The
02:22:43 narcissist as much as I love Ovid. The lack of completeness was not yours alone. That was the cosmic gift and curse to me, too. Remembering the hot breath and the moving and the joy of being at total trusting peace. A peace
02:22:55 being at total trusting peace. A peace that might encompass everything from the mundane chores of everyday life to the bedroom joy." Um we'll just look at another communication. Uh this is another email
02:23:06 communication. Uh this is another email from him sent 2 days later on the 14th of September 2014. This is page 91 of 38191.
02:23:14 38191. And the second of paragraph, he says, "Oh, my love, the guilt is mine for returning to see and say apologize and speak to remind you of the better man I am. And years passed by, yet still you
02:23:25 am. And years passed by, yet still you are there, always there, and always will be."
02:23:29 be." So, it seems here here he's being very open about the fact that he he's suggesting he's still in love with you. Would you agree with that? Yes. Um and he also appears to be suggesting he's a better man now that
02:23:41 suggesting he's a better man now that he's learned from past mistakes. Would you agree with that? Yes. And
02:23:46 Yes. And in another email, uh we don't need to bring it up, but it's the 16th of September 2014 38191 page 92, he signs off, he says, "But I do love you."
02:23:57 off, he says, "But I do love you." So, he's openly declaring his love. Again, how did this make you feel? Um well, then I was really um
02:24:07 um taken aback, flattered, and confused because
02:24:16 you know, um
02:24:18 um I had I had never had anybody declare love in that way, Yeah.
02:24:22 Yeah. whether in writing or in person in in a in grandiose manners. So, I thought, oh, you know, it it made me doubt myself and my relationship as
02:24:34 me doubt myself and my relationship as well because I had a long-term relationship. Yes. I'm not going to take you through it, but we can see from your emails that you he gradually seems to be breaking down your defenses and that your emails become
02:24:45 become less guarded, more open. Yes. And you say in an email to him, this is um
02:24:53 in an email to him that you wrote on the 13th of October, so this is a month after you met. This is at 38191 page 100.
02:25:01 100. And you say, "You asked me to tell you how this is the third paragraph. You say, "You asked me to tell you how I feel, not how I think I should feel, but my heart tells me everything with us is real."
02:25:13 real." Um
02:25:18 And then the final paragraph, you write this. You say, "You apologize that coming back has placed me in a situation to rethink where I am, that you have been disruptive, but I don't feel sorry
02:25:29 been disruptive, but I don't feel sorry for any of that. So, it is nothing for you to apologize for. Maybe it was coincidence, maybe it was right time, but the week after I began to rethink seriously, rather than the thousands of times of rethinking, accepting,
02:25:41 times of rethinking, accepting, compromising what to do with my situation. You contacted me and then if we could just go over to page 101 and I'll read it out. I'm skipping over some of the content. But you say, "But the fears have been
02:25:52 you say, "But the fears have been addressed as I have talked to him about ending things. Logistics will keep my boyfriend and I together a little longer." So, is that a reference to the fact that you spoke to your partner, who we're
02:26:04 you spoke to your partner, who we're calling Indra, about ending the relationship? Yes. Yeah. And was that because you were entertaining thoughts of reconciling with Robert Hastings? Yes. I mean, you
02:26:15 with Robert Hastings? Yes. I mean, you know, when Rob uh so
02:26:19 uh so between uh well, between the time that we uh
02:26:25 we uh met in September and the end of October, I think I met Rob two, three times in between. Yes. And this is when he
02:26:36 And this is when he also said like, "Well, you know, I'll buy your mom a house. I'll buy you a Yeah. your family house and things like that." And um and you know, it just made me think,
02:26:47 and you know, it just made me think, "Well, I've been living with this man for 5 years who's not discussed about like getting a mortgage, buying a house, getting a family together, you know, what like when are we really going to get settled?" Cuz we've been living
02:26:58 get settled?" Cuz we've been living together and here's somebody who's ready to to settle and I just wanted to have, you know, settle down and have a family. Yeah. So, that's why I had a chat with
02:27:10 Yeah. So, that's why I had a chat with my ex then and said like, "Listen, here's this man, he's come back to me and he's promising me the world. Mhm. Um I don't know what to do. Maybe we need to work on our relationship
02:27:21 we need to work on our relationship because I feel like I'm being swayed, but I think maybe that's because our relationship isn't strong enough and Yeah. should we be able to give ourselves some time to strengthen ourselves? And then if we are strong
02:27:33 ourselves? And then if we are strong enough and then we're not going to uh then then I will just tell Rob please go away.
02:27:39 go away. But if if in this interim kind of let's make it or break it time that doesn't work then, you know, then the decision would be made that I would So, I hadn't made that decision that quickly, but I
02:27:52 made that decision that quickly, but I wanted to give myself my partner and time to see about how we could strengthen ourselves and what he could offer in a sense. And how did he react to that?
02:28:01 to that? Oh, he was not very happy about that. Yeah, he was very upset. Um
02:28:09 You say that you met over the next few months. We'll look at when you had sex again the um on the 8th of February 2015.
02:28:19 2015. But over the intervening months, so between that meet up in September to the 8th of February, you met a few times.
02:28:27 times. Um
02:28:28 Um You say in your witness statement in the park, again in Hillyfields, one time in the pub.
02:28:35 the pub. Um
02:28:39 Did things ramp up as it were between you? Did you start to act more romantically towards one another, more as if you were a couple? Yes. Well, but I mean with the respect for like it
02:28:51 but I mean with the respect for like it was just feelings until that conversation and I did write to Rob about, you know, how I had missed him. So Yeah. Um Yeah, how I was worried for him and uh
02:29:06 Yeah, how I was worried for him and uh and you know, he was just sending me all these sort of beautiful words. Yeah. Um and but also like yeah, you know, me reassuring that that love was real. It
02:29:18 reassuring that that love was real. It wasn't that I was in love with him again, but just to reassure him that what we had before was real, that I was true, that I was not going to run away. Um
02:29:29 Um Yeah, and so we we had that, but it was only until uh the time the the time that my partner and my former partner and I had given ourselves.
02:29:40 ourselves. Yeah. Until that expired, then I felt like, "Okay, then I can maybe give him a kiss or something." But, you know, until then I had to like respect those boundaries. And when did that time expire between you and your partner? Uh
02:29:51 expire between you and your partner? Uh at the end of October. Right. Okay, so after that, you relaxed a little bit if I understand your evidence in respect of how openly affectionate you could be.
02:30:02 openly affectionate you could be. Um I just like to bring up just quickly just to as a reflection of what was going through your head at this time. So, this is an email you sent to Robert Hastings on the 29th of December 2014.
02:30:16 Hastings on the 29th of December 2014. It's 38191. Page 107. It's the bottom of the second paragraph. And it's an email in which, I mean,
02:30:27 And it's an email in which, I mean, amongst other things you appear to be thinking about a future with Robert Hastings. At the bottom of the second paragraph, you say, "The logistical questions I get stressed out about are more to do with little questions like,
02:30:38 more to do with little questions like, 'Would February be too early to move in for you? Would you like to see privacy in the spring? Should I go there in the monsoon instead and make money being a tour guide?' And stuff like that. I mean, there's no point for me to bombard
02:30:49 mean, there's no point for me to bombard you with such questions though until we meet. And who knows? By that that time, maybe I'll have other ideas. Maybe I'll say, 'Let's go somewhere tropical first.'" So, it seems from that that you were really thinking actually in quite concrete ways about the immediate future
02:31:02 concrete ways about the immediate future and what you're going to do with him. Yes.
02:31:05 Yes. Um
02:31:07 Um again, the emails paint a picture of
02:31:14 growing intensity Yes. in respect of the exchanges between you both in terms of expressions of love and in terms of sexualized language.
02:31:25 language. Yes, I would say rapid intensity. Yes, rapid. I think that's a very fair characterization. So again, we don't need to bring them all up, but I'll read some of them out. So, in a Skype message of the 31st of October, 2014,
02:31:39 of the 31st of October, 2014, uh
02:31:40 uh it's page 18 of 38192, sent at 22:42, he says to you, "I want to be with you until I die." On that same date, page 19 of that same
02:31:52 On that same date, page 19 of that same document, he says, "Have my baby." Uh page 20 of that same document, he says, "I will give you all the babies you want and live with you outside the UK."
02:32:03 UK." That's again on the 31st of October. Um in a Skype message sent on the 15th of November, 2014, this is page 39 of 38192, he said, "You should marry me.
02:32:15 38192, he said, "You should marry me. When you have your PhD, I can't marry anyone who is stupid." Um
02:32:23 Um at
02:32:24 at page 41 of that same document, same date, he says, "If I marry you, I will never leave you. I will be yours until death. That is what I want, to love you forever."
02:32:35 forever." So, they speak for themselves, really, in terms of the tenor of the emotions that he's expressing. Yeah. Um the messages become incredibly sexual. Yes. Um I'll just read a couple of them out,
02:32:46 Um I'll just read a couple of them out, just to give a flavor of those. Yeah. Um
02:32:51 he sends you a message on the 21st of November, a Skype message. Uh it's 38192, page six, he says, "I want to protect you, hug you, make love
02:33:03 want to protect you, hug you, make love to you, [ __ ] you, just be with you." Um 21st of November, 2014, page 49, he says, "I love licking your pussy."
02:33:14 he says, "I love licking your pussy." He's trying to get you to undress on the webcam. Can I just clarify, um reading the transcripts, it seems as if he can see you on the webcam, but you can't see him. Is that accurate?
02:33:26 can't see him. Is that accurate? Yes. Right. Um
02:33:31 Maybe we might want to bring this one up. This is 38192, page 46.
02:33:38 page 46. This is a
02:33:41 This is a transcript from Messenger. Uh it's the date of the 15th of November 2014. He sends a message at 19:39:51.
02:33:54 It's roughly 18 lines down. He says, "If you come to mine, I will want to make love to you." You say, "I want that too, but I also want that to be special." He says, "Be inside you, come in you, with
02:34:06 says, "Be inside you, come in you, with you."
02:34:08 Um if we go on to page 50, uh it's about seven lines down. It's a message he sends you the 21st of November 2014, sent on uh at 17:13. He says, "I want to
02:34:22 sent on uh at 17:13. He says, "I want to come in you. I want to come in you." Um what was the effect on you of receiving these incredibly specific, graphic, sexual messages from
02:34:33 specific, graphic, sexual messages from him? Um
02:34:36 him? Um it kind of I mean, by that time, it it what Well, in November, it was a bit uh still overwhelming. Mhm. Uh
02:34:47 Uh you know, I was still living with somebody, and um it it it just uh
02:34:55 uh Yeah, it didn't get me sexually aroused, for one thing. It didn't. It didn't. Um and uh yeah, no, I just felt like, "Oh, wow, he just adores me, body and soul."
02:35:06 wow, he just adores me, body and soul." I don't know. Yeah. Um so, when you say it didn't sexually arouse you, it was unsolicited. It's not as if you were
02:35:13 you were reciprocating. Is that Yeah. And and you know, sometimes I would text back to, you know, play into his fantasy in a sense. But, um never initiated and also I I also um
02:35:29 Yeah, it it was just like it just kind of asserting to be honest because it just felt so fast and so soon. Yeah. Yeah.
02:35:40 Yeah. It's very intense. Yeah. Um now, I understand I'm not going to look at it in detail just I'm aware of the time, but you hope to see him over Christmas 2014. Yes. He dropped out of contact. He gets
02:35:53 Yes. He dropped out of contact. He gets back in contact um after Christmas and
02:35:59 and imparts some very graphic information about his health. Um
02:36:07 and doesn't apologize for the fact that he dropped out of contact over Christmas. Is that a fairly accurate Yes. summary? How did you feel again about his
02:36:16 about his failure to contact you over Christmas? Well, I mean, over Christmas I was extremely upset cuz it was already clear by then that um I was not in a relationship anymore. I
02:36:28 I was not in a relationship anymore. I mean, I had already told him that I'm no longer in a relationship. And I had also said that
02:36:35 said that um
02:36:36 um my
02:36:37 my uh
02:36:38 uh my you know, ex works over Christmas so we can meet. Uh I'd even asked him like what he does um during Christmas and he said that during Christmas he always
02:36:50 said that during Christmas he always spends Christmas alone and since he'd been living by Ladywell by that time, uh that he would go to the pub there and
02:37:01 uh that he would go to the pub there and he would order himself a leg of lamb and you know, that's how he would treat himself for Christmas. And it made me feel very sad cuz I thought that, you know, uh Um, he's spending Christmas alone. Maybe I can just go and you know,
02:37:13 alone. Maybe I can just go and you know, we can go to the pub together and have Christmas there. Yeah. And also, the impression being given through the messages is that this is love. This is a loving relationship that's rekindled. Yeah, and I had texted
02:37:25 that's rekindled. Yeah, and I had texted him like happy Christmas. Uh, well, on Skype. Um, that's another thing that, you know, I don't understand why he didn't give me his phone number. Did he tell you why he didn't give you
02:37:36 Did he tell you why he didn't give you his phone number? No, he didn't. He just like gave some excuse over some technical thing. I you know, he said, "Oh, it's some tech thing even I don't understand. It's just easier if it's on Skype." Right. Um,
02:37:49 easier if it's on Skype." Right. Um, yeah, something about a SIM and you know, I didn't really understand it and he was he was making it as out as if it was so technical that he also couldn't understand it and it would just get
02:38:00 understand it and it would just get fixed and at least, you know, the Skype is something that's permanent that he can always log on to with his email. Uh, or or yeah, or yeah, with his laptop. Yeah. Uh, to contact me. But yeah, so I
02:38:13 Yeah. Uh, to contact me. But yeah, so I would send him Skype cuz you know, the I didn't get to save all the Skype messages. I only saved what I thought was significant. Um, because I thought, "Oh, they'd be so romantic to look back
02:38:24 "Oh, they'd be so romantic to look back to." Right. And That's good to know. So, there are some missing. Oh, there's quite a few quite a few missing. Yeah. seem so. Yeah. The the only screenshot aside from what was able to be extracted
02:38:36 aside from what was able to be extracted on I didn't you know, but there was a lot missing and uh, when I had switched to a phone and then it was no longer on the messenger. So, only on the messenger you get those messages. But, um,
02:38:48 you get those messages. But, um, yeah, so on the phone I would say like Merry Christmas. How are you? What's going on? I don't hear anything. Then during New Year's, I don't even get a greeting back. So, I was just really
02:38:59 greeting back. So, I was just really distressed like has he disappeared on me again? What's happening again? Yeah. Um,
02:39:06 Um, and when you received the email of the 28th of December, uh is it page 104? I don't think we need to look at it but if 38191 containing information about
02:39:20 if 38191 containing information about his poor health. Again, was that gratefully received? Were you relieved to some extent? Were you angry? Yeah, I was relieved. I wasn't angry. I just thought, "Oh, okay. He's
02:39:32 thought, "Oh, okay. He's you know, I was a little bit disappointed. Yeah. Because I thought, "Well, by now you should, you know, if you've got a health problem, even whether it's mental, you know, he was
02:39:43 whether it's mental, you know, he was describing both his mental and physical health.
02:39:46 health. You know, I'm here for you now, so why couldn't you just tell me?" Rather than cutting contact. Yeah. Um
02:39:56 Um Now, we know that you meet up again on the 8th of February 2015. Yes. And that he came round to your house
02:40:03 house and that
02:40:05 and that you had sex again. Yes. And that was the first time you'd had sex since 2007. Is that right? Yes. Uh so, if I understand correctly,
02:40:16 if I understand correctly, last time you had sex in 2007 was actually after you'd broken up, as it were.
02:40:19 were. Yes. Yeah. And it was around summer 2007. Can you help us with whether it was
02:40:30 Can you help us with whether it was planned in advance that you were going to have sex with one another on that
02:40:35 on that It was not planned in advance. Um Sorry. Don't worry. Um It wasn't the first sexual activity. I mean, you know, by then with things
02:40:47 mean, you know, by then with things escalating, we had kissed, you know, we had fondled and all that, but it wasn't um but, you know, I wouldn't say it's the first uh
02:40:57 first uh encounter of any sexual kind, but And was the first time that we had intercourse. Right. Yeah. And how did it come about? Uh
02:41:07 Uh well, you know, I thought well cuz by then
02:41:12 by then my um ex had been moved moved out and I thought the uh the place is finally free. I didn't think oh we're just going to have sex straight away, you know, it was more okay, now he can finally come around for dinner or you
02:41:24 finally come around for dinner or you know, we can finally like be in a house in in my house together where we can relax. Yeah. And um and then he
02:41:36 and then he uh
02:41:37 uh and then we went to the bedroom, but it wasn't even to have sex. Like it was I was tired. I wasn't on any contraception. You know. Did you tell him that? Yes.
02:41:49 You know. Did you tell him that? Yes. Yeah. And then so it was by Sorry. I'm going to get another pastille. Yeah.
02:41:56 Yeah. So by
02:41:58 So by being
02:42:00 being um
02:42:01 um you know, so it wasn't as if like, you know, one is seduced and then they go to the bedroom. Yeah. No. I mean, we did kiss, of course, but you know, it wasn't the intention.
02:42:13 know, it wasn't the intention. And then, you know, it's just like, okay, now now we're together. We're going to lie down and we're going to have romantic talk and sleep and cuddle together. Right. Um yeah, that's how that started.
02:42:24 that started. Was there any preamble? For example, did you have dinner together? Did you watch telly together? Or was it fast? No, I think we probably had a cup of tea or something somewhere, but yeah. Was this the evening of the uh the Yes,
02:42:35 Was this the evening of the uh the Yes, it was in the evening, so we didn't have a proper dinner together, no. So Um
02:42:42 you say that you told him that you weren't using contraception. Can I ask when did you tell him that? Was that just before you started having sex? A long time before you started having sex? Um
02:42:52 Um While you were having sex? Just before. Just before. Because as it came that apparent that he wanted to have sex Yeah. then I was like, "Wait a minute. Just to let you know, I'm not on any
02:43:04 Just to let you know, I'm not on any contraception." Right. Yeah. Okay. So, if I understand this correctly, he'd come around for a cup of tea. Not long afterwards you'd gone into the bedroom. Yeah. Not long after that he'd made it clear
02:43:16 Not long after that he'd made it clear that he wanted to have sex. Yes.
02:43:20 Yes. And you'd said to him, "I'm not on any contraception." Yes.
02:43:25 Yes. Um what was his response if any to that? He He just told me I'll be careful. What did you understand that to mean? And that he would withdraw. And I said, "Are you sure?" Like, you
02:43:36 And I said, "Are you sure?" Like, you know, he's like, "No, no, you know, I'm an experienced person sort of." I mean, not in those words exactly. Yeah. But he
02:43:44 But he um
02:43:46 um made it clear that he could be in control, that I didn't have to worry about anything. Um can you help us with how he made that clear? He said Did he
02:43:57 how he made that clear? He said Did he say, "I will be careful"? Yes.
02:43:59 Yes. Did he explicitly say any Did he say anything more than that? Or was that Yeah, he said like, "No. I I He might I I don't remember the exact conver- you know, the words of the conversation, but something along the lines of like, "I'll
02:44:10 something along the lines of like, "I'll be careful. I'll make sure nothing happens. Don't worry. Um you know, I know how to pull out." Right. Yeah. And did that reassure you?
02:44:21 Right. Yeah. And did that reassure you? Um
02:44:23 Um yes. It's the truth. I mean, I was still a bit wary, but you know, it was like, well, we're together. I mean, we're going to have sex sometime or another, so might as well, you know, still do
02:44:32 still do Okay. Did you trust him? Yes.
02:44:35 Yes. Um can you help us with what happened then when you had sex? Well, it was a little over too quickly.
02:48:44 Mhm.
02:52:34 Mhm.
02:58:03 find out that Robert Hastings was an undercover officer during the time that you had a sexual relationship with him in 2006-2007. An undercover officer. Yeah, well, a
02:58:15 An undercover officer. Yeah, well, a chief
02:58:17 chief contacted me. Yeah. And he uh said, "I have something serious to talk about, and can we meet?" And uh so uh yeah, so we set up a time.
03:02:09 Mhm.
03:04:04 Mhm.
03:05:59 Mhm.
03:09:49 Mhm.
03:13:39 Mhm.
03:14:22 So, if we could now move into private session, please. Yes, before we do, I should say something in public because once we go into private session, that will be the end of your evidence and the
03:14:34 will be the end of your evidence and the end of what the public will hear generally. But, it's right that uh public should hear what I now have to say to you, which is
03:14:44 which is a heartfelt thank you for coming and speaking of your experiences to me at the inquiry. You are
03:14:54 You are not only informing me uh about
03:14:58 uh about events that are remarkable and for you distressing, but you have performed a very valuable public duty in doing so. And may I express my
03:15:12 And may I express my thanks to you and my appreciation of your doing so.
03:15:20 The room will now be reset up for a private hearing. I think I have to rise now, don't I, to permit that to happen? sir. Yes. And we'll have a short break while I the room is set up for the All right.
03:17:29 I know.
03:21:19 Mhm.
03:22:22 Mhm.