Morning session featuring two core participants who were victims of racist violence and whose justice campaigns were infiltrated by undercover police. Richard Adams describes the murder of his son Roland in 1991 by racist gangs in Thamesmead, the police's failure to treat it as a racist crime, and the subsequent surveillance of the Roland Adams Family Campaign. John Burke-Monerville describes his son Trevor's catastrophic brain injuries sustained in police custody in 1987 and the Trevor Monerville Defence Campaign. Both witnesses challenge why police resources were used to spy on victims' families rather than tackling racist violence and criminal gangs.
00:24:27 e e
00:25:01 today is the day when our proceedings will be uh transmitted by live transmission subject to a 10-minute delay therefore the usual rules apply uh
00:25:13 delay therefore the usual rules apply uh those who have uh electronic devices may use them to transmit silently to the outside world what they have heard but only 10 minutes after the event that they're describing uh such devices may
00:25:25 they're describing uh such devices may not be used for recording proceedings or taking
00:25:29 taking photographs yes could the witness be for one please would you like to stand please take the Bible in your right hand and repeat after me I swear by almighty God I swear bym Mighty God that the evidence I shall give that the evidence
00:25:45 evidence I shall give that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth shall be the truth the whole truth all truth and nothing but the truth nothing but the truth thank you please sit down yes um before you um uh begin questioning may I
00:26:03 before you um uh begin questioning may I express uh a view which I trusted shared by everybody in the room today we are going to hear from two witnesses who have lost Sons through violence can their evidence please be treated with the quiet and respect which it
00:26:18 deserves good morning Miss Adams morning my name is Afra Bruce Jones and I'm
00:26:29 my name is Afra Bruce Jones and I'm going to be asking you some questions on behalf of council to the inquiry first of all can you please tell us what's your full name Richard Nelson Adams Mr Adams you produced a witness statement for this inquiry dated the 27th of June
00:26:42 27th of June 2024 this statement consists of 24 pages and you also provided exhibits to that statement numbering some 100 Pages do you confirm that that witness statement is true and accurate to the
00:26:53 statement is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief yes that puts the whole of your witness statement as evidence before the inquiry today and if it hasn't already ready it will be published on the inquiry website in due
00:27:08 in due course M Adams I'm going to ask you some questions about the Roland Adams Family Campaign which was set up by you and your wife following the murder of your son Roland and the attack on your um on Roland's brother Nathan which occurred on the 21st of February
00:27:19 on the 21st of February 1991 and I will also ask you about some intelligence reports filed by undercover police officers which related to your campaign but before I do that um I'd like to ask you a bit about Roland and
00:27:31 like to ask you a bit about Roland and your family can I ask that the picture of Roland Adams be put up on the screen
00:27:40 please so Adams is it correct that Roland was born on the 21st of March of 1975 yes and was he your firstborn child yes can you tell us what was Roland like as your
00:28:03 son well starting from a baby well he he he was a quite lovely little boy very pretty as I as I was told then and um he you know he was a studious little boy and um cheerful
00:28:15 and um cheerful Smiley as a as a baby and a toddler and um and then his brother came along yeah
00:28:27 um and then his brother came along yeah and um they got on together as brothers do and
00:28:29 do and um you know they played a lot of football and did a lots of sports they
00:28:40 football and did a lots of sports they you know read and did usual things that boys
00:28:41 boys do and you know and and and I did my part as a dad you know I supported whatever they needed and I sort of like steered them
00:28:54 needed and I sort of like steered them in the right type of way without Channel
00:29:07 in the right type of way without Channel them in the Right Way rather than um cut off exuberance you know Channel it more than cut it off and they were lovely boys
00:29:11 boys yeah you said that Roland and Nathan together were really interested in football and sports yeah music music yeah and music yeah what sort of Music were they into
00:29:22 yeah what sort of Music were they into well um before Roland died um you know you know Roland and Nathan they built a
00:29:35 you know Roland and Nathan they built a um with my help they built a um a music studio in their room they had guitars they had drum machines and all sorts of you know things associated with
00:29:50 you know things associated with producing and Engineering music and they had a bit of a fan base cuz they had quite a lot of visitors you know that came and jammed and sang and wrapped and all the rest rest of it with them yeah and is it right that your family at
00:30:06 yeah and is it right that your family at this time lived in abbywood yes when did you move
00:30:11 you move there I need to look it up but I think it's about 1986 roughly yeah and abbywood just to be clear for those of us who aren't necessarily sure it's
00:30:34 us who aren't necessarily sure it's geographically an area next to tsme is that right yeah I think you know been I've been down there recently and um it's nothing like what it was then because abbywood and tmid were distinctly different you know um and separated by um lack of
00:30:52 know um and separated by um lack of infrastructure and vegetation and stuff like that now that it's more built up you can sort of like um just stumble across and so was geographically separate in in a lot of respects
00:31:12 then can we take the photograph down please Mr Adams in the witness statement that your family provided to the inquiry your son Nathan describes his memories of what happened the day that Roland was murded so I'm going to summarize that
00:31:29 murded so I'm going to summarize that part of the witness statement now but if I miss out any details please add to it when I have finished a and sir just to say um I just want to warn that in the summary I am about to read um there will be reference to racially offensive
00:31:40 be reference to racially offensive language but having sought permission from Mr Adams I am going to use the
00:31:53 words Nathan Adams gives this account of what happened on the 21st of February 1991 when he was with Roland on the 21st of February 199 1 15-year-old Roland and 14-year-old Nathan had gone to the hawksmore youth club in
00:32:05 club in tsme they were going to play table tennis and collect some records back from someone whom they had lent them
00:32:19 from someone whom they had lent them to on the way to the youth club Roland and Nathan had met an individual who said to him this is a KLU Clan area you're not allowed here Nathan says that this worried them after they had finished at the youth
00:32:31 after they had finished at the youth club collected the records Roland and Nathan were waiting at the bus stop to catch the bus home when they were confronted by a group of aggressive young white men Nathan was hit on the head and as a
00:32:49 men Nathan was hit on the head and as a result his memories of what happened are a little hazy but he heard what he thought was a stone hit the bus stop Roland then started to run whilst holding his neck Nathan says at that
00:33:03 holding his neck Nathan says at that point he was frozen to the spot and only when Roland turned to him and told him to run did he too run
00:33:14 to run did he too run away he tripped and heard members of the attacking group laugh and say kill the Roland ran up over the flyover and Nathan ran underneath the flyover to try to meet him on the other side but when he got to the other side Roland was
00:33:27 when he got to the other side Roland was not there so Nathan ran back up over the flyover
00:33:28 flyover whilst he was doing so he saw another male on a bus who waved at him and told him that Roland was lying on the floor at the bus stop Nathan says this
00:33:41 at the bus stop Nathan says this confused him he didn't know why why Roland would be lying on the floor he ran to the bus stop and he saw Roland lying on the floor with lots of police around him Nathan said he laid
00:33:53 police around him Nathan said he laid over Roland trying to protect him and keep him warm an ambulance came they treated him at the roadside including putting things down his throat and giving him shocks to resuscitate
00:34:06 him Nathan went with Roland in the ambulance to the hospital at the hospital Roland was dragged off the ambulance and taken away to be treated Nathan didn't know where he had been
00:34:19 Nathan didn't know where he had been taken sometime afterwards a nurse or a doctor came to tell Nathan that they were very sorry but that his brother was dead Nathan was taken to se Roland by two nurses
00:34:30 two nurses he gave Roland a kiss and learned that he had died from a stab to the throat Nathan tried to run out of the hospital but he was restrained by two police officers including one who put him in a
00:34:48 headlock he was taken to the police station and questioned he was covered in Roland's blood and his own blood from where he had been hit on the head by a group of people who attacked him
00:35:00 various swabs were taken from him his forehead was swollen and his face was Bloody where he had been hit on the head by the attackers the police asked Nathan whom he had assaulted and where the
00:35:12 whom he had assaulted and where the knife was they gave him the impression they didn't believe he could be a victim Nathan says and I quote this from the witness statement at paragraph 3.12 when I was let out family members
00:35:29 3.12 when I was let out family members were there the records we had collected from the IND idual Spilled Out from my jacket onto the floor they were all soaked in Blood and that is when the family learned how much blood Roland had
00:35:45 lost Mr Adams if I've left out any details from Nathan's account that you think the inquiry should hear today please feel free to add them now I think Nathan is the only person that could have given that statement really
00:35:57 yeah Mr Adams in your witness statement you say that your understanding of how Roland died deepened as time went on you say that Roland was murdered and Nathan was attacked by members of a gang called the Nazi turnouts a group also called
00:36:10 the Nazi turnouts a group also called the KKK or the goldfish gang and they were identified by some as something of
00:36:21 were identified by some as something of a BNP youth movement do you remember how you came to know this or where this information came from yeah well uh the reality is is that there are
00:36:34 the reality is is that there are families suffering in silence for many years in
00:36:35 years in tsme these this gang or these gangs were well known to the police at the time I'm be known to ourselves
00:36:47 be known to ourselves otherwise I wouldn't have moved my children into that area at all
00:36:59 children into that area at all but um so so after Roland died and um and these families noticed that we had somewhat of a public profile if you want to call it that but you know the media was around
00:37:19 that but you know the media was around us because we suffered the death of our child you know the media wasn't interested in in the in the barbarism that was these families were subject to before so these
00:37:36 families were subject to before so these families sought to come to us for either support because they thought we were better connected than they were or whatever but they started telling us their stories because our son just got caught up in a in a bad situation really
00:37:53 caught up in a in a bad situation really the the you know these people were in in fear and in Terror being brutalized being h hospitalized and all the rest of
00:38:05 being h hospitalized and all the rest of it so so they came to us to tell us what it is really like we had no idea otherwise I wouldn't have subjected my children to
00:38:19 that so it became clear after what had happened that there was a problem with racist violence in that area yeah in terms of the arrests following Roland's murder I think you say in your Witness statement that nine individuals
00:38:30 Witness statement that nine individuals were arrested in the week following the murder uh one person was charged with his murder four with violent disorder and the others were not charged is that correct
00:38:44 correct yes the person who was charged was named Mark thornber and he was in due course convicted of Roland's murder was anybody prosecuted for the attack on Nathan no not to this day um I've often asked the question you know
00:39:03 I've often asked the question you know with So-Cal Lia and officers and and you know the police generally and and um you know I even had a
00:39:17 and and um you know I even had a solicitor at the time and we sought to ask those questions it's never been answered to this day
00:39:26 really during the course of the murder investigation um were you being kept up to date to some extent by the police as to what what was going on
00:39:37 on um we had this person that we now know was the leaan officer Mr fiser I believe his name was or PC
00:39:52 his name was or PC Fisher and the majority of times that he visited us was to tell us that more perpetrator s were being bailed or released from
00:40:13 custody were you told whether the police were investigating this as a racist crime
00:40:19 crime well it it was never prosecuted as a racist crime of I've had numerous
00:40:38 racist crime of I've had numerous discussions with the police um h to the trial uh you know about why it wasn't seen as a racis crime and um all the evidence suggested that and all the all the all the gang members were associated with the far right if you want to call it that and
00:40:56 want to call it that and um and the the and in their own words in what how they described my children you know you know the nword as you could and all the rest at the time clearly suggested
00:41:12 the rest at the time clearly suggested that that was the motive but the police and
00:41:18 and um and the CPS the local Authority and all the rest of them because it can only be a connivance in my mind that they all came to the wrong conclusion that it wasn't a racist
00:41:34 conclusion that it wasn't a racist murder when all the evidence was staring them in the face it was even written
00:41:36 written um and I'm very grateful to the presiding judge at the time because he
00:41:47 presiding judge at the time because he was the only person in in the cold light of day looking at all the evidence and he to this day is the only person from all of the government officials if you
00:42:00 all of the government officials if you want to call them that that has stated clearly that it was a racist murder and he's totally impartial had nothing to do with tamme
00:42:14 impartial had nothing to do with tamme he just looked at the evidence himself you know I just find it ironic and strange that you know and I think that's what gave Fuel and power to these
00:42:27 what gave Fuel and power to these individuals you know who were terrorized in a neighborhood for years is the inaction of all of those authorities who basically connive to sweep something
00:42:40 who basically connive to sweep something like this under the table it's as though is there kith and kin you know the way they protected them I I just don't get it
00:42:47 it yeah and as you say the presiding judge
00:42:58 yeah and as you say the presiding judge um was the one who described that murder as racist and indeed when he sentenced Mark thornber he sentenced him accordingly yes I'm going to ask that we bring up
00:43:09 yes I'm going to ask that we bring up one of the exhibits that you provided to the inquiry Mr Adams it's uh document ucpi
00:43:11 ucpi 27042 and it's A2 within the hard copy
00:43:28 bundle will it be shown on my screen yes it will come up on your screen oh sorry it's 37042 that's my
00:43:41 mistake thank you so uh Mr Adams I think this is um a flyer that was created and we can see it's for a March that was to be held on the 27th of April 91 but I
00:43:52 be held on the 27th of April 91 but I just wanted to focus on the graphic in the top I think um is this a graphic that you designed yeah I WR designed it and and wrote the article in those
00:44:10 and and wrote the article in those days there wasn't computers and all the rest of it that's why this is might by today's standard called crude but you know this is what we had to do at the
00:44:26 know this is what we had to do at the time is to create our own imagery and um posters and and get them printed at our own cost too yeah and we can see on that graphic where Roland's name and his picture um and the date he was born and died and then you've written slaughtered by
00:44:41 then you've written slaughtered by racist Society it it might seem obvious but are you able to explain to us why you use those words slaughtered by racist Society I think I've explained as much already I mean if you've got if you've got um
00:45:12 you've got um Rogue people if you're like you you know racist running around and and causing a and killing people you know they would be brought to Justice and charged accordingly here we had a local Authority the local police the CPS the general Judiciary magistrates
00:45:28 CPS the general Judiciary magistrates and all the rest of it were denying that this was a racist murder for from my wife and I it's clearly a societal
00:45:39 wife and I it's clearly a societal problem so and and that's why I I stated as such it is a you know slaughtered by a racist Society
00:45:52 a racist Society it this could have gone on forever like this being if it wasn't for that judge intervening and stating clearly that what has happened you know it is a societal problem that we had then I I can't talk about any other case but clearly in this instance it's clearly
00:46:08 clearly in this instance it's clearly was uh my son was clearly slaughtered by a
00:46:09 a racist
00:46:17 Society you told us that after Roland's death you came to learn from people in the area about the issues of racism in tsme and I think um in your Witness statement you talk about uh a location
00:46:34 statement you talk about uh a location the the wild Fowler Pub uh what did you come to learn about this particular pub again all of this is after the event yeah and and what is it that you came to
00:46:47 yeah and and what is it that you came to learn about the pub after the event yeah and I think you put in your witness statement that the nto the the Nazi turnouts used to congregate outside the off-license next to the wild Fowler Pub this is at paragraph
00:47:01 this is at paragraph 3.16 he say this was near the hawksmore youth club The Wildflower Pub was well known to be a meeting point for B&P members and a center of drug
00:47:16 dealing did you find out anything about the leader of the hawksmore youth club and their view of racist attacks in the area well what the the um
00:47:34 area well what the the um the one of the youth leaders or One A lady that work there called an Brewster her children were subjected to the same sort of um beatings and chasing
00:47:47 and and the arrest so we we learn from
00:47:59 her paragraph 3.17 of your statement you say I learned that the youth leader of the hawksmore youth club had become increasingly worried about incidents of racist attacks in the area in the months leading up to the attack and had in fact asked Greenwich Council and the police to help bring it to an end but they
00:48:11 to help bring it to an end but they didn't yes that's right yeah it concurs with what I've been saying it it wasn't
00:48:23 with what I've been saying it it wasn't news to the police it wasn't news to the local
00:48:24 local Authority he so it was an age of old problem that they had there they were outnumbered on the on the outskirts of
00:48:37 outnumbered on the on the outskirts of grenage if you like and um and and they were being bullied and you know and nothing was done about it in the immediate aftermath of
00:48:51 it in the immediate aftermath of Roland's murder was there any further threats to your
00:48:56 family yeah yeah
00:49:03 yeah we we kept getting Anonymous phone calls you know
00:49:05 you know sometimes there was nothing said sometime there was just breathing sometime there are
00:49:19 sometime there are obscenities sometimes um ring in the the fact that my son had died and my other son was similar attacked and yeah
00:49:30 attacked and yeah in your witness statement at paragraph 4.5 you say that um Nathan was hospitalized a week after the attack where the hospital received threats to
00:49:41 where the hospital received threats to the effect that they were coming down to finish off what they started and the hospital were the ones who warned you of this
00:49:49 this um what was the police's response to this if you can remember apathy you know they thought we were making a Mountain out of a mohill and all the rest of it and I feared for
00:50:07 and all the rest of it and I feared for my son's life because the mere fact that these people had intelligence if you like that my son was in hospital you know and they were clearly plugged into what's going on in the area either via the police or whatever you
00:50:26 either via the police or whatever you know we didn't know who to trust because I don't know how these people can have all of this information and they and they appear to be just odd people you know attacking black people
00:50:38 people you know attacking black people so you know I really feared for my son's life and I mean you know you can as you can imagine I just lost one my wife you know we've all with the family had had a great loss and and for my surviving son to be
00:50:53 and and for my surviving son to be threatened and yeah and I I had had to ask the police that you know for them to provide protection of my son in
00:51:05 provide protection of my son in hospital and did they provide that
00:51:16 hospital and did they provide that protection no so I I I when they refused to Pro provide protection I told them that well I will have to provide the protection for my son with the my family members and I think it's that's when
00:51:28 members and I think it's that's when they started thinking we don't want um you
00:51:33 you know loads of black men if you like standing
00:51:35 standing guard on a hospital Ward and at the front gate and all the rest of it so they decided that they would now provide
00:51:52 they decided that they would now provide a solitary police officer at his bedside that's the only way that we got that type of
00:51:57 type of protection thank you can we take that document down please um Mr Adams were there that well in your witness statement you make reference to various other incidents in The Wider community that occurred in the period after Roland's murder
00:52:13 period after Roland's murder um can you tell us about some of these for example I think at paragraph 4.6 uh or 4.7 you explain that the youth club uh the Hawks Mall youth club where
00:52:24 club uh the Hawks Mall youth club where Roland and Nathan had been the night of the attack was firebombed
00:52:30 well I don't know too much about it I mean this this is here say and and it turned out to be facts I mean the the the youth club being firebombed is you know it's it's
00:52:45 being firebombed is you know it's it's not something that I would know too much about except the knowledge that it had been at paragraph 4.10 of your witness statement you explained that you had a commemoration for Roland on the 28th of
00:53:00 commemoration for Roland on the 28th of February 1991 where you laid wreaths at the spot where Roland died and um you then say that someone or a group later burnt those wreaths yeah um and and and and I think
00:53:18 wreaths yeah um and and and and I think that that was a big issue for us um you know disrespectful and desecrated uh uh because we did prayers and all sorts there
00:53:31 sorts there I that made us know that we couldn't actually bury Roland in um in that borrow and um you know R we
00:53:49 um in that borrow and um you know R we buried Roland in a completely different borrow because we couldn't have people who clearly had their finger on the pulse and could get information about my sons where about they certainly could get get information about where my son was would be buried as well so we
00:54:09 son was would be buried as well so we buried him out of the borrow to not have his grave desecrated like his memorial or his where we laid
00:54:17 reefs and then one final example I want to um just reference that in your witness statement at paragraph 4.23 you say that during this time the BMP Leaf lited our neighbors houses in our estate some of our neighbors came to us to
00:54:30 some of our neighbors came to us to commiserate we were the only house in the estate that did not receive a leaflet and we realized that the BMP knew where we lived that was frightening yeah it's back to this
00:54:41 frightening yeah it's back to this intelligence lead if you like um where these SoCal nobodies can have that level of information about our
00:54:59 address about my son being in hospital and all the rest of it it clearly is frightening to think that an organization like the BMP or
00:55:17 that an organization like the BMP or Renegade racist if you like can have so much information about our family and families and and and and intimidate you know um yeah it's astonishing that and and our neighbors brought the leaflet to show us as well the leaflet was of a battered
00:55:37 as well the leaflet was of a battered white elderly woman who they um on the flyer just like our flyer instead of having Roland's face on it if you can imagine you had a battered um white lady elderly allegedly battered by a black
00:55:56 elderly allegedly battered by a black person I would suggest and uh and that's how they were recruiting new members yeah
00:56:00 yeah Mr Adams in the context of all this was that was happening you founded the Roland Adams Family campaign um and I believe you founded the campaign with your wife Audrey is that correct yes but it wasn't just um you
00:56:17 correct yes but it wasn't just um you know um we've got family you know ory's family my
00:56:19 family my family we all you know were very saddened by Roland's death everybody contributed um we were
00:56:33 contributed um we were mainly we were don't get me wrong we were at the Forefront but we were mainly the face of it and um but all our family members were heavily involved you know we were all very hurt and um traumatized by
00:56:54 all very hurt and um traumatized by it and how did you come to make the decision to form the campaign well well we knew from the outset that um like I mentioned before the connivance of um all the
00:57:09 before the connivance of um all the government officials if you like for without you know naming them separately you know we we knew from the outset that you know we weren't going to get Justice you know I
00:57:26 get Justice you know I mean we KN we had factual accounts of what transpired on the night what happened to our children and what has happened
00:57:41 happened to children who were living this daily nightmare giving telling us what was happening in the area so the family campaign was on many fronts different I mean we were there to bring about awareness so par unsuspecting parents
00:57:54 awareness so par unsuspecting parents like ourselves wouldn't inadvertently buy houses and and set up home in those areas and subject their children to the
00:58:07 areas and subject their children to the same ordeals and stuff like that we were trying also to um you know encourage support to those
00:58:18 um you know encourage support to those families in the area we were using the campaign to um you know get the local
00:58:31 campaign to um you know get the local authorities to move some of these these people out we also physically helped families move out we we physically um help we we we
00:58:46 physically um help we we we also um put up families in our own homes who are at risk as well the campaign was on many fronts and we were supporting other campaigns who
00:58:59 we were supporting other campaigns who have suffered similarly in other areas as well it was quite Broad and
00:59:10 as well it was quite Broad and honest yeah I'm going to ask that we bring up a document it's ucpi 37043 it's A7 in the bundle and Mr Adams what I'm bringing up now are the meetings of sorry the
00:59:25 now are the meetings of sorry the minutes of the inaugural meeting of the campaign just wait for the computer to catch up
00:59:30 we go we can see at the top there inaugural meeting of the Roland Adams support Campaign Committee and where it was being held as a slightly different name but I think the name of the campaign just changed slightly as it
00:59:45 campaign just changed slightly as it went on um we can see from these minutes first of all the attendees at this meeting obviously the names have been redacted for privacy but we can see the organizations that they represented um just wanted to draw
00:59:57 represented um just wanted to draw attention to a couple of these um the second one down uh gaca which I think stands for the Greenwich action committee against racial
01:00:10 racial attacks and then um further down Central race equality Unit were you in touch with these organizations before the first meeting of the
01:00:31 campaign I I I think gakara the GAA ra um I'm sure that probably Dev bar might have contacted us you know because of what happened to our family was that a like a um a group that was within the local government within
01:00:46 was within the local government within the council or was it it it it was um I think it was um funded by the local
01:00:56 Authority and if we just turn to page three of this
01:01:05 exhibit the first line states there that this was the first meeting to launch the Roland Adams support campaign and the struggle to combat racial attacks and harassment in the London borrow of
01:01:17 harassment in the London borrow of Greenwich tsme and Beckley areas and you you told us um a minute ago that one of the things that you were doing was helping families um who wanted to move
01:01:28 helping families um who wanted to move out of of the area due to this kind of um racial harassment or racial attacks was this something that you were you were aware was happening before the
01:01:42 you were aware was happening before the campaign was set up or was this were you aware of the level of racial harassment other families were experiencing uh as I've said from the
01:01:56 experiencing uh as I've said from the outset there is no way that I would have moved my family into that vicinity if I felt that there was any issue with racism and all
01:02:02 that I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn but I've been in this country for 60 years now and um we I know you know I I've had difficulties with racism and
01:02:20 I've had difficulties with racism and all of that my father had my son has had and um you know and if I bring it to 2020 before you know my grandson has these four
01:02:34 these four generations we know all about racism I don't know if I've um gone off tangent and you might have to repeat the question because it is an emotional subject for me of course what
01:02:48 emotional subject for me of course what I was asking you about was the movement of families out of the area due to racist harassment and how the campaign
01:03:03 racist harassment and how the campaign assisted them yeah I didn't have nothing to do with it before my son died it was something I knew I didn't have no idea that this area was so terrible and I didn't know how deep the rabbit hole was until my son died can we take that document down please yeah and is it
01:03:20 document down please yeah and is it correct that in fact the local Authority then did help several families to move out of the area and funded them to do
01:03:34 out of the area and funded them to do so yeah I believe that's true because um I think I think part of um The Campaign was about you know publicizing and bringing about
01:03:47 know publicizing and bringing about awareness and making the local Authority because it's an embarrassment to the local authority to have their um inaction in the public
01:03:56 domain Mr Adams in your witness statement get the right section I think it's paragraph
01:04:04 4.27 you talk about how um black families both within the family campaign and outside the campaign were frightened about how you say we were frightened about how we could keep our children
01:04:16 about how we could keep our children safe and keep them out of the violence and we went through a period of believing that self-defense groups should be set up we did not set them up but we did support those who had been attacked um for how long were you considering um
01:04:36 for how long were you considering um setting up selfdefense groups well the the the campaign is not just about me and um and my family you know because the reality is we had already
01:04:47 because the reality is we had already lost Roland I mean there's nothing we could do for Roland this was about trying to save their lives and and um
01:05:04 trying to save their lives and and um and keep young black boys in particular out of trouble we were there trying to use our grief and our pain to help others you know there's nothing we could do for Roland and it was all about
01:05:15 do for Roland and it was all about bringing about awareness trying to get things in place that wasn't in place for them trying to stop them from been
01:05:29 them trying to stop them from been becoming perpetrators from a victim because you know that's what it's all that was what it's all about really we we had lots of
01:05:41 it's all about really we we had lots of away from the campaign we also met a lot with parents whose children were being attacked on a daily basis and we were we were encouraging each other to stop our children from become
01:05:54 to stop our children from become perpetrators and stop our our children from being attacked and you know giving them the wisdom of our knowledge and you know bringing in support groups who
01:06:07 know bringing in support groups who could help or individuals who could help turn these children or steer these children away from problems because I could see it exploding into something whereby these our children would become
01:06:23 whereby these our children would become just as bad as these racist you know we wanted to avoid that yeah you also tell us in your witness statement how in April of 1991 you and
01:06:35 statement how in April of 1991 you and your family were told that you needed to move house immediately due to being in danger um can you tell us who was it who told you
01:06:42 told you that I I
01:06:47 that I I believe you know it's 33 years ago I believe it was um Mavis Clark and baroness hows you know she wasn't a baroness at the time but but we were told you know and n penstone he was
01:07:03 told you know and n penstone he was another officer from the council it was those sort of um um solid individuals
01:07:14 those sort of um um solid individuals who were either plugged into the system more than we were that advised us that they had good reasons to suspect that our family was in imminent danger yeah and you did in fact move straight away is that correct
01:07:32 um I'd like to bring up another document it's uh a second set of meetings of the campaign reference is ucpi
01:07:41 37059 it's at
01:07:52 a27 and Mr Adams this is a set of meeting minutes for the Roland Adams Family campaign dated the 20th of June 1991 and um again there's the usual um agenda and
01:08:04 again there's the usual um agenda and some notes but I just want to read out at paragraph one the aims and objectives of the campaign because this is the first time we've seen them written down um and it says this the primary
01:08:16 down um and it says this the primary aims and objectives of the campaign were agreed to be the following one to close the BNP headquarters for/ Bookshop as soon as
01:08:28 headquarters for/ Bookshop as soon as possible two to organize a boycott of the Wildflower Pub three to organize publicity and campaign around the racists who murdered Roland Adams and Orville Blair four to organize publicity and campaign around the people who were arrested at the demonstrational protest against the BMP five to discuss and
01:08:45 against the BMP five to discuss and organize the need for Community defense and six to discuss and organize the creation of a memorial for Roland Adams um the first aim there noted is to close the BMP headquarters and Bookshop as soon as possible
01:08:56 as soon as possible again you might think the answer is obvious but why was this an aim of your campaign well we did are clearly from my
01:09:09 campaign well we did are clearly from my previous statements um we didn't have no idea about the BMP headquarters before my son's
01:09:27 death we we we subsequently learned that it was set up in 1989 which is 2 years be off two years before my son died and um and and and reading you know about since they moved in into the area
01:09:43 about since they moved in into the area that racist attacks had increased since dramatically since they um moved into the
01:09:44 the area you know um like I said before it wasn't so much about you know nothing we could do for Roland it was about you know trying to make it a safer place for
01:10:01 know trying to make it a safer place for black families and you know particularly young black boys who are more the subject of their interest you know it's it's obvious in my opinion why we would want it closed yeah thank you and I'm going to
01:10:20 closed yeah thank you and I'm going to ask that we go to the second paragraph of this document which is entitled discussion around the documents submitted by AFA just before I go on do do you do you know what AFA stands for I think it's the anti-fascist action or something like that description anyway
01:10:37 something like that description anyway again is 30 years ago I'm just going to read that paragraph So AFA or antifascist action outlined the contents of its two documents including their opinion on objectives and proposals for
01:10:48 opinion on objectives and proposals for the way forward for the campaign it was suggested that anti-fascist actions analysis document be discussed in depth before the meeting for moved forward a heated discussion followed with regard to various paragraphs in the document
01:11:01 to various paragraphs in the document there were disagreements with regards to the contents of anti-fascist actions document criticisms were made of the contents of the leaflets that were distributed at the March criticisms were made on the issues or direction that
01:11:15 made on the issues or direction that came out of the March anti-fascists were called racist and not listening to the experiences of black people and anti-fascist action objected to being called racist it was suggested that a separate meeting be held with
01:11:26 separate meeting be held with antifascist action and black groups to discuss their paper there were no definite conclusions on this and anti-fascist action walked out of the meeting um to what extent from your
01:11:40 meeting um to what extent from your memory were anti-fascist action involved in the Roland Adams Family campaign um well clearly if they were inv involved in in our
01:11:53 in in our campaign it it um judging from their um idea of U moving forward they wouldn't have been Everly involved because my wife and I and the rest of our family
01:12:14 wife and I and the rest of our family were quite keen and um on what our aims and objectives were just like you read them out a while ago and and I mean anything that would um tarnish Roland's memory
01:12:25 um tarnish Roland's memory and our ability to um continue our campaign you know though you know they would be on The Fringe of um of our
01:12:39 would be on The Fringe of um of our campaign and um we welcomed everybody we didn't exclude anybody but at the same time we had a clear
01:12:46 clear agenda of what we wanted and I mean there's dozens of other organizations
01:12:57 there's dozens of other organizations out there if they wished to join but we had a clear agenda on what we wanted so were you aware that there were
01:13:08 wanted so were you aware that there were other groups that had strong opinions as to how the campaign might be run yes because we had open and Frank discussions and we knew what we wanted and they knew what we our objectives
01:13:22 were thank you we can take that document down um Mr Adams can you tell us sort of generally uh some of the activities that the the Roland Adams Family campaign um
01:13:37 the the Roland Adams Family campaign um did from when it began in 1991 I mean we saw earlier the exhibit we put up with the graphic you designed that was advertising a demonstration I think on the 27th of April 1991 and where there other marches or demonstrations that you took part
01:13:52 demonstrations that you took part in what you mean separate to our own or in addition to your own well um I I think that you know you saw that
01:14:04 um I I think that you know you saw that we orille Blair I think it was mentioned who died we we I'll go back to the what I've said before I mean there's nothing that we could do for Roland we could only use
01:14:15 could do for Roland we could only use his name to support others and because we had a this momentum we just thought
01:14:26 we had a this momentum we just thought we could help others with that momentum and move our plight black people's plight on a bit further so we supported rahit dugle rahit dug's family afterwards who also died
01:14:39 afterwards who also died in in that vicinity we went and we supported Steven Lawrence's parents when he died which happened in very similar
01:15:00 he died which happened in very similar circumstances so so whilst we were had our agenda and we like closing on the Bookshop and bringing about greater awareness of what what was going on and you know and we had platforms where we
01:15:11 you know and we had platforms where we spoke on and stuff like that but we were also very empathetic towards other families who lost children in similar
01:15:24 families who lost children in similar fashion and and that's what we did we were were up and and we also it was National it wasn't just
01:15:31 London I'm going to ask now that we talk about some of the reporting on the campaign by the officers can we please bring up document um ucpi 9876 which is B1 in the bundle
01:16:09 ucpi 1
01:16:23 19876 thank you Miss Adams this this is an intelligence report um attributed to uh an
01:16:31 an officer no uh hn9 C Mark Kerry um this mentions uh this document dated the 30th of September 1991 and obviously mentions the Roland
01:16:46 1991 and obviously mentions the Roland Adams Family campaign at the bottom and this relates to a picket of the Old Bailey for the first day of the trial of Mark thornber who we've explained was later convicted of Roland's murder I
01:16:59 later convicted of Roland's murder I I'll read the report the trial of those accused of murdering Roland Adams the young black man killed on the TS Meer State London se28 earlier this year begins on Monday the 7th of October 1991 at the Old Bailey the Roland Adams
01:17:12 at the Old Bailey the Roland Adams Family campaign has called for a picket of the courts from 9:30 on that day the Socialist Workers Party has adverti this in both its weekly newspaper and its weekly letter to Branch committees
01:17:25 weekly letter to Branch committees namely party notes however the latter does not give any instructions or directives to S swp branches which indicates that s swp attendance will be limited to a few members selling the party's
01:17:38 party's newspapers um do you remember were you aware in advance that the S WP the Socialist Workers Party had advertised this
01:17:49 picket I wasn't necessarily aware that they had advertised it but um I had I
01:18:04 they had advertised it but um I had I had a good relationship with some of the members you know um some of the members are still a friend of mine now to this day 30 years later so you know knowing how they operated I
01:18:23 so you know knowing how they operated I would sort of suspect that they would do something to support the attendance of um supporters to um the cause really yeah so was there some sort of a relationship at that time between the family campaign and the swp or was it more personal with you it was more individuals it was more individuals
01:18:38 individuals it was more individuals within the Socialist working party that you know we I can speak for myself my wife and I formed some friendships with
01:18:50 wife and I formed some friendships with individuals from all sections of um you know groups and organization who supported the same things that we did we more gravitated to individuals more than the um the function of or
01:19:03 the um the function of or the or the ethics of of of an organization it's more about the individuals yeah thank you can we take that down and can we move to document ucpi
01:19:19 can we move to document ucpi 28229 which is at B2 of the hard copy bundle
01:19:31 thank you now this is a report focused on an individual whose name we can see is redacted by for privacy but um if we just focus on the body of the report it says privacy is an active
01:19:42 report it says privacy is an active member of the newer monitoring project and would appear to be third in pecking order to um UMES Desai and privacy
01:19:54 order to um UMES Desai and privacy privacy chaired the recent Al Sharpton meeting at Friends Meeting House on behalf of the Roland Adams Family campaign privacy strongly believes in the physical Street campaign against the fascist and has proved this on numerous occasions including when arrested in
01:20:10 occasions including when arrested in November 1987 whilst combating the BMP privacy's commitment to anti-fascist activity is beyond reproach firstly do you have any memory of this person chairing a meeting where Reverend Al Sharpton came to speak to the
01:20:20 the campaign no
01:20:32 do you remember Reverend Al shton coming to speak to the campaign well Reverend Al Sharon contacted us um I I mean I I mean I've said as much you know
01:20:46 mean I I mean I've said as much you know we we didn't get much traction if that's the word from the British media and
01:21:02 the word from the British media and stuff like that nobody was interested in um my son's death really especially the the racist element of it and I'll Shar and contacted my wife and I um and and and you know and and wanted to emphathize with us and and help us to bring about
01:21:18 us and and help us to bring about Justice and support for our family and others so um we we sort of knew him personally yeah it wasn't sort of like um this person just turned up you know
01:21:29 um this person just turned up you know we we knew him in fact we still know him
01:21:44 we we knew him in fact we still know him he he spoke at my um wise funeral lately you know 33 years later we still know him and just the second part of that report I know you've said you don't remember who this individual who the report is about is but were you aware of anybody um involved in the campaign who
01:21:57 anybody um involved in the campaign who was known to be particularly interested in a physical campaign or physical um confrontation with um the BMP or with fascists no
01:22:11 um if you look at all of the literature that we've had you know um even because even the AR you know
01:22:24 um even because even the AR you know came out of our campaigning and all that and their ethos is nonviolence everything about the literature that we've ever put out and everything that we've ever believed in it was
01:22:40 we've ever believed in it was about ensuring that our young black men stayed out of
01:22:55 stayed out of trouble we were never a Campa if anybody thought different that was never put to us but that was our ethos that was our mission statement that was our Mantra that was everything K us can we now move I'm going to look at another of the exhibits that you've
01:23:07 another of the exhibits that you've provided um Mr Adams which is document ucpi
01:23:15 37056 um this is another set of meetings that's um a32 in the hard copy there's another set of minutes of um a Roland Adams Family campaign meeting this time on the 20th of February
01:23:30 February 1992 um it says the attendance there are about 30 people present and I just want to focus on the the body of the report about
01:23:44 stewarding this time February 1992 it seems like it's going to be talking about stewarding for a particular March I don't know if you remember which March it would have been um but I'm just going to read the
01:23:55 been um but I'm just going to read the following so one stewarding Lee reported meetings of stewards had taken place each Steward will have a briefing note final briefing at St Nicholas Gardens 10: a.m. Saturday privacy and Lee attended a police briefing four
01:24:07 attended a police briefing four instances in which the police would intervene in the March disputes on the March for example between the AR and the ANL physical tax on officers physical
01:24:22 ANL physical tax on officers physical tax on the BMP Bookshop or attack on the March it was reported that the police numbers on the day would be very substantial and then further down it says privacy noted that the chief stewards are calling for a peaceful demonstration all stewards and all those attending will be asked to respect that Lee noted that it
01:24:33 asked to respect that Lee noted that it was crucial that the order of the March was respected otherwise this would be a source of trouble and police intervention privacy proposed that the order of the March be
01:24:50 order of the March be changed to bring the ANL further to the front privacy and Audy explained that the order had been decided at the previous meeting and it was not open for discussion it was noted that it was important that if there was any in violence or police attack that the organizers and participants on the March were seen as
01:25:04 participants on the March were seen as the victims and the police or BMP Etc is responsible for the violence and it was agreed that there there would be an they would organize a symbolic laying of a wreath Etc at the
01:25:18 Bookshop would it would you say that the where it says it was crucial that the order of the March would be respected otherwise this would be a source of trouble and police intervention that the ran Adams Family campaign is this how
01:25:30 ran Adams Family campaign is this how they usually participated in in in such marches yes
01:25:41 marches yes uh it says Audy there that's my wife she and and and together you know if I wasn't
01:25:42 wasn't there she would be there or another family member would be about on most of these meetings and and it's quite clear
01:25:58 these meetings and and it's quite clear you know we we we weren't we weren't out there for Retribution or anything like that we wanted
01:26:07 change there's reference in this document to the ANL is it correct that the ANL here stands for the anti-nazi league yeah and so can we take from this that they were one of the organizations that were taking part in this
01:26:19 that were taking part in this demonstration with you well the ANL is a organization that was disbanded before Roland died and um it came alive again after Roland died
01:26:34 again after Roland died yeah and what sort of support did you receive from the ANL well like I like I've mentioned before
01:26:42 before um we just one family you know the black community wasn't being listened to or or
01:26:54 community wasn't being listened to or or our plight you know wasn't taken serious serously so any support that we could um that that we could get you know we know we had our
01:27:05 could get you know we know we had our mission statement we had our aims and objective anybody that would come around us and support our aims and objectives were
01:27:16 were welcomed I'm now going to take us to three intelligence reports in a row that that refer to the ANL and the rafc the first is um ucpi
01:27:29 28150 that's B4 in the hard copy
01:27:55 bundle this is a report you can see at the top is ATT tributed to hn 78 Trevor Morris um and it records the following in an attempt to bring itself to the Forefront in the fight against racism and fascism the relaunched anti-nazi league has organized a mass Le flitting campaign in the tower Hamlet area on Sunday the 2nd of February
01:28:11 Sunday the 2nd of February 1992 um and then paragraph 3 the ANL is putting its weight behind the Roland Adams Family campaign demonstration due to be held in tsme on Saturday the 22nd of February 1992 leaflets advertising these events
01:28:24 1992 leaflets advertising these events were submitted with this report can we go to a second document please ucpi
01:28:30 28250 B5 in the hard copy
01:28:43 bundle this is a second report by Officer uh tribut officer hn 78 dated the 7th of February
01:28:53 1992 can we uh have the second part of the paragraph up please yes that's that's there on the 22nd of February the ANL intends to give Mass support to the demonstration called by the Roland Adams Family campaign to
01:29:07 the Roland Adams Family campaign to close the British national party Welling headquarters this event will be a london-wide mobilization with s swp members from outside the capital also being encouraged to attend especially if they are accompanying um ANL non swp
01:29:19 they are accompanying um ANL non swp members activists are also being urged to fly post as many bills as possible a Iz in the event in order to build a real awareness of the action and it says the demonstration will assemble at 12:00
01:29:32 demonstration will assemble at 12:00 noon St Nicholas church plumsted High Street
01:29:38 se8 and finally I just want to take us to document ucpi 1 19915 B6 in the hard copy
01:29:55 bundle this attendance report dated the 14th of February 1992 2 is attributed to officer
01:30:02 officer hn9 and at the bottom we can see it says the anti-nazi league ANL appears to be efficiently and enthusiastically organizing support for the Roland Adams Family campaign demonstration to March and demonstrate outside the BMP Bookshop in Welling on a local level housing Estates are being leafleted and fly
01:30:14 Estates are being leafleted and fly posted to advertise the event in the battery and Brixton areas buses have been booked to take protesters to the event the swp the main Drive behind the anti-nazi League will be calling for a
01:30:25 anti-nazi League will be calling for a london-wide mobilization of its members and indications so far suggest that the event will be well attended by the S swp and its
01:30:34 and its supporters Mr Adams do you do you consider those reports to be accurate in terms of the level of support afforded to your campaign by the Socialist
01:30:45 to your campaign by the Socialist Workers Party and or the anti-nazi league
01:30:56 yes can we move to document ucpi 28278 B8 in the hard copy
01:31:10 bundle this intelligence report attributed again to officer hn 78 dated the 26th of February 1992 we can see it's called an event proformer um gives the date 22nd of February 1992 the organization is named
01:31:27 February 1992 the organization is named as the Roland Adams Family campaign and the nature of the event as a March the British national party HQ in Welling followed by a
01:31:34 rally just read the first
01:31:42 paragraph the a is it correct that that stands for the anti-racist alliance yeah who organized the march in conjunction with the Roland Adams Family campaign had made it known in an open letter to the swp that should any violence occur it would be construed
01:31:56 any violence occur it would be construed as anti-nazi leag orchestrated and the S swp ANL leadership therefore had instructed their comrades whilst on route to The Venue that the demonstration should not be allowed to degenerate into physical conflict as this would only detract from the issues involved and erode future ANL
01:32:15 support can you tell us um first of all you mentioned it earlier in your evidence but just to be clear did you say the anti-racist Alliance came out of the Roland Adams Family
01:32:27 the Roland Adams Family campaign I don't know if it came out I think that they saw it as a I'm
01:32:29 a I'm speculating I think they it was disbanded before I don't know when it was
01:32:40 before I don't know when it was disbanded but it wasn't about before Roland
01:32:46 Roland died and it came alive again subsequently and what sort of relationship did the Roland Adams Family campaign have with the anti-racist IST Alliance um like I've said before with most of the
01:33:03 I've said before with most of the organizations that came to support us we had relationships with individuals within those organizations rather than
01:33:16 within those organizations rather than the um the tier at the top for instance uh you know I I didn't even I don't think my wife and I knew necessarily who were at the top or at the bottom we just had really relationships with individuals within those
01:33:39 organizations the report obviously refers to um instructions to the members of the the swp the ANL um that this particular demonstration your demonstration should not be allowed to degenerate into physical conflict um did the Roland Adams Family campaign have a
01:33:52 the Roland Adams Family campaign have a position on whether violent or physical confrontation at these demonstrations was permitted or not permitted well like I've said before um we've
01:34:07 well like I've said before um we've always with all the other documents that we've been through before it's quite clear that we did not want our children to become
01:34:17 perpetrators thank you finally Mr Adams I'm just going to ask you about the impact that the knowledge that the campaign was reported on has had on you and your family when did you first become aware that the undercover officers of the special demonstration
01:34:30 officers of the special demonstration Squad had reported on the Roland Adams Family
01:34:32 campaign
01:34:41 um it was um our brief that um told us about the
01:34:44 about the undercover policing that we were subject subjected to that yeah but you know as a family we like I've said before we we
01:34:55 family we like I've said before we we often felt that we were under some sort
01:35:08 often felt that we were under some sort of surveillance or that you know my sons we about in hospital are you know these Renegades knew where we lived and and all the rest of it we always suspected that we were under some sort of surveillance by whom who
01:35:21 surveillance by whom who knows and when you were told that campaign had in fact been reported on what was your initial
01:35:34 what was your initial reaction I think um my son put it quite well actually in in one of his statements he he he he he he he realized that he wasn't paranoid after
01:35:51 wasn't paranoid after all yeah yeah I think that my my wife and I were similarly the same because we felt that um we were subject to surveillance for a long time whether it be local um police
01:36:05 time whether it be local um police surveillance or whether it was this special um Squad but we felt that we um you know there was just too much um you know coincidences out there I
01:36:20 um you know coincidences out there I mean we had family homes that was broken into nothing taken but you know you know stuff that is of no interest to a
01:36:32 a burglar and stuff like that so we often felt that we were under some sort of surveillance and I mean we felt more Vindicated to know
01:36:45 Vindicated to know that what we thought was true was in fact
01:36:46 fact true yeah thank you Mr Adams I don't have any further questions for you um but we
01:36:56 but we there may be some more questions to come Mr Adams part of our process is uh involve a quarter of an hour break at the end of the principal evidence given by a witness such as yourself so that if there are any questions from other
01:37:08 there are any questions from other participants they can be put to miss Bru Jones and she can ask you so we'll break for quarter an
01:37:22 hour
01:54:21 e e
01:55:22 yes Mr James yes thank you sir um I have no more questions but my leared friend for the witness I think will have some questions thank you m Adam just to tie up a few loose ends please I just want to go back to the uh issue of police
01:55:35 to go back to the uh issue of police spying on the family which you touched upon in in multiple respects but I think the easiest way to do this is to take you to your witness statement and and
01:55:48 you to your witness statement and and and have you elaborate if you wish to on anything you say there so could we have on the screen please ucpi 37 041 please which is the statement of Mr Adams uh page 12 paragraph
01:56:00 12 paragraph 4.22 please now you mentioned the um Family liaison officer PC fiser during
01:56:12 Family liaison officer PC fiser during your statement what you say in relation to that in your witness statement is this I'll just read it out and you can perhaps follow on the screen PC Fischer used to just come around telling us
01:56:23 used to just come around telling us things he came unannounced it was like a policeman coming around to try and show empathy it didn't feel like the empathy was real it didn't feel like his role was planned supportive policing he
01:56:34 was planned supportive policing he seemed to be trying to tease information from us he wanted to find out who the individuals were who were visiting us he tended to stay in our house for long enough so he could see who was
01:56:45 enough so he could see who was there sometimes there were people in other rooms he also asked about the campaign and what we were doing we had nothing to hide we were trying to increase PE awareness in the community we answered his questions I mean does
01:57:01 we answered his questions I mean does that summarize your impression of the of the family liaz on officer visits to your home yeah yeah yeah there wasn't any empathy or
01:57:13 yeah yeah there wasn't any empathy or any genuine warmth or anything like that and and it just felt like it was information gathering more so than more than support for the family
01:57:26 than more than support for the family yeah and I mean I know it's a long time ago but how many times do you remember him coming around the house in in the manner you describe in this paragraph it was a long time ago and
01:57:38 paragraph it was a long time ago and um you know that's all I can say I can't remember how many times he came but it
01:57:48 remember how many times he came but it wasn't something that we look forward to or or or that we could reach out to him for anything could we turn to page 14 please in farag paragraph 4.26
01:58:01 um now in the earlier paragraph you you talked about the issue of the police um releasing um some of the perpetrators on bail um that's the context in which you
01:58:14 bail um that's the context in which you say at 4.26 at the same time the police were using their resources to stop our family members when they were coming to visit us we felt as if the police considered us to be the greater threat and more demanding of being policed than those who had threatened us family
01:58:26 those who had threatened us family members and friends who were stopped and
01:58:37 members and friends who were stopped and searched included my my brother and then various other individuals are named um there were many others is that square with your Rec recollection now about people being stopped well yeah we yeah we were very angry and and and and what
01:58:51 we were very angry and and and and what was even more um frightening is that um they they sort knew who who my family were before they even arrived at our house if you will they
01:59:02 arrived at our house if you will they were stopping them yeah and is that part of the awareness that you described earlier sort of knowing that you were
01:59:13 earlier sort of knowing that you were under surveillance is this an example of that yeah um at 4.28 same page this is in relation to the moving out of the house the threats to us as a family became such that Ros hows from grenwich commission for racial equality that's baroness hows you mentioned earlier yes and N penston from the local Authority
01:59:28 and N penston from the local Authority both of whom had been supporting us came round to our house and said we were in such danger that we had to move house immediately we had asked the police for protection the police said that they did not have the staff to protect us unless we agreed to have an officer in our
01:59:41 we agreed to have an officer in our house the whole time we would not accept we could not accept that we did move house away from the area is that right that was the only style of police protection that you
01:59:53 only style of police protection that you were offered at the time well yeah and I and and and if um my son knows this too but we were very frightened for him more than anything because he became
02:00:07 than anything because he became increasingly the attention of the police yeah um next I just want to ask you a few questions finally on on your overall perception um of racist violence in southeast side London you've explained
02:00:20 southeast side London you've explained already that you had no idea at the time of Roland's murder uh how bad it was otherwise you would never have lived chosen to live there but it's about you what you discovered afterwards and you
02:00:41 what you discovered afterwards and you you deal with this starting at in part I I am you know I my wife and I you know were were um I don't even know how to put this
02:00:42 put this but I think that we felt that we probably should have done more due diligence and you know you know inight we thought we should have done more
02:00:55 we thought we should have done more diligence and I think that that's what this awareness was this bringing about awareness is trying to educate other
02:01:09 awareness is trying to educate other black families about the area you know we didn't
02:01:11 we didn't have you know the opportunity to know about the area before we moved there and I think part of our campaign was about bringing about that awareness our other family wouldn't Sleepwalk into the
02:01:31 family wouldn't Sleepwalk into the nightmare that we had yeah thank you could we have page 22 please of the statement um and the the two top
02:01:42 statement um and the the two top paragraphs there Mr Adams where you say this um I consider that if the BNP racist gangs and criminal gangs associated with them had been effectively policed and at least some of the racist violence and murders could have been prevented that's what effective policing means eff policing can obviously include undercover
02:01:56 can obviously include undercover policing learning about the undercover policing of the Roland Adams Family campaign the groups that supported us and other Justice and Community Camp campaigns makes me ask why Why Us why
02:02:08 campaigns makes me ask why Why Us why not focus on the racist criminal gangs who set those priorities what does it say about policing racist murderers and drug dealers they carry on and we remain unprotected but spied on you wish to elaborate on that at
02:02:25 elaborate on that at all I I I I I'm asking questions here and you know I I'm hoping that um my wife an ie by making these statements and putting question marks after the
02:02:38 and putting question marks after the questions we are hoping that the inquiry can provide some of these answers and finally um at the bottom of the same page at
02:02:52 6.20 um so the overall impact of what I have learned to date about the spying on us has made me feel that the wrong people were being policed black people and victims of crime appeared to be more concerning to the
02:03:04 concerning to the police um than the racist gangs and right-wing parties they were not effectively policing the criminals this makes me sad disappointed and angry it also makes me ask why I and the public need to know what was happening in
02:03:15 need to know what was happening in relation to policing racist criminal gangs and the right-wing parties and why was the focus on us and not them as it now seems again you're posing questions
02:03:30 now seems again you're posing questions yeah and those remain questions that you w't answered now all these years later well none of them have ever been answered and um you know part of participating in this inquiry for both my wife and I is about whether or not
02:03:42 my wife and I is about whether or not this inquiry can glean anything that we don't know yeah thank you so that's all I ask thank you very much much um Mr
02:03:57 I ask thank you very much much um Mr Adams may I personally thank you for coming to give evidence um like everybody in the room I suspect I have been impressed by the calmness frankness and dignity with which you have done
02:04:15 and dignity with which you have done it um you raise an important question which Mr mes dealt with in his last series of questions to
02:04:27 you about um in infiltration of groups other than left-wing environmentalist groups and so forth uh I am looking into that but I must do that largely in closed uh and
02:04:40 must do that largely in closed uh and any report on it will largely have to be enclosed as well and that may mean that um your hope that you will discover from me uh what was done about that uh
02:04:52 me uh what was done about that uh part of undercover policing may not be fulfilled you can rest assured it I will do it but you may not learn the
02:05:07 outcome we will now um break until about uh
02:05:08 uh 12:00 uh so that the next witness John B monoville uh can prepare himself to give
02:05:20 evidence
02:43:18 e e
02:44:18 so would you like to stand please and take the in your right hand and repeat after me I swear by almighty God I swear by almighty God that the evidence I shall give that the evidence I shall
02:44:29 shall give that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth shall be the truth the whole truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and nothing but the
02:44:40 truth yes Mr Warrington Mr Burke monoville uh good afternoon good afternoon sir um could you tell us your full name please my full name is John Lincoln Burke
02:44:55 full name is John Lincoln Burke monoville I think it's right Mr Burke monoville that you made a witness statement to assist the inquiry which is dated the 28th of June of this year is that correct
02:45:06 that correct disc that statement together with the exhibits that you've provided consists of 50 pages is that right that is right
02:45:27 right that is right now some of the events that you refer to in your witness statement occurred a long time ago is that correct yes sir
02:45:28 sir because events happened a long time ago you've made reference to and relied on a number of contemporaneous documents
02:45:39 number of contemporaneous documents where they have been available to you is that right that is quite right and is it right that reminding
02:45:50 right and is it right that reminding yourself of those documents has helped you to provide some of the content of your witness statement that is true not all but as you said some yes are the content of your witness
02:46:01 yes are the content of your witness statement true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief that is correct Mr ber monoville that puts the whole of your witness statement into evidence and if not already it should
02:46:13 evidence and if not already it should appear on the inquiry's website in due course thank
02:46:30 course thank you now in a moment Mr Burke monoville I want to ask you some questions uh about the Trevor monoville defense Campaign which was set up in order to pursue Justice on behalf of your son Trevor who had sustained significant injuries uh in circumstances where he ended up in police
02:46:45 ended up in police custody and I also want to ask you about intelligence reporting filed uh by undercover police officers that referred to that campaign all right thank you
02:46:59 to that campaign all right thank you before I do that I just want to ask you a little bit about you your family and Trevor all right I think I think your wife Linda sits beside you uh to support
02:47:10 wife Linda sits beside you uh to support you in giving evidence this afternoon is that correct that is quite correct she asked me this morning could she be near me to cadle me if I break down
02:47:29 in front of you is a photograph of Trevor is that right this particular yes I'm just going to ask for that image to be put up on the
02:47:37 screen when was Trevor Bourne Mr bur monoville that is uh
02:47:45 1967 I think it's the 27th
02:47:57 you got me there well long time ago 1967 long time ago there are many things I do remember and some I have a very large family my father doesn't remember my
02:48:10 family my father doesn't remember my birthday either Mr Bal but um please forgive me not at all he's got no excuse
02:48:14 excuse um how old is Trevor in that image that you see in front of you 19 19
02:48:32 now Trevor very sadly was killed on the 18th of March of 1994 is that right that is right I remember this one yes and it's right that his murder remains unsolved is that correct yes sadly yes and I think um Trevor was born to a
02:48:45 yes and I think um Trevor was born to a previous partner of yours is that right that is quite right can you tell us a little bit about what Trevor was like as a
02:48:56 a child Trevor was a very very very nice young man when Trevor was born we live in Stratford soon after that we moved to
02:49:19 wellin in Kent yes and he was doing okay I believe that uh at school in greenage that's when it all started when I parted with my first partner who was his
02:49:32 his mother and things went a little bit sour for Trevor then we moved back to Hackney and things seems to have got very very very worse for Trevor
02:49:45 very very very worse for Trevor then but through all these things that do happen that did happen to Trevor he always
02:49:57 always remained a family boy yeah a kind heart good nature
02:50:05 nature loving but he changed a lot after this particular thing happened to
02:50:23 particular thing happened to him he was like the days of nursing him again I had to nurse him to understand everything that was necessary for a young man of his age to know yes and
02:50:25 yes and uh he was such a lad then that uh we missed him greatly he was a nice boy he had his
02:50:42 greatly he was a nice boy he had his faults but he was what you call a loving member of a large family and after losing him we suffer a lot
02:50:58 lot yes he was 19 years old uh when he was injured is that right yes so the age that he is in this image that appears before us is that right this particular one yes
02:51:15 this particular one yes yeah and was that photograph taken before or after he sustained his injuries can you remember no I do not all right I need to explain that to you because of what has happened to Trevor
02:51:26 happened to Trevor yes I personally haven't got any photographs of Trevor I see all the other members of the family
02:51:39 other members of the family have but I find it too painful looking at
02:51:40 at him day after day so I keep no photograph of him at all I just want to remember him the last time I saw him
02:51:52 him the last time I saw him alive let's take the image down please no please don't all right it refreshed
02:52:03 no please don't all right it refreshed my mind are you happy to have it open in front of you yes yes all right well I have not seen it for years if at any point it becomes too difficult Mr Bert monoville you let us know and we can make arrangements to
02:52:15 know and we can make arrangements to have it taken down I will plus I have my referee next to me
02:52:24 now before in the period before Trevor sustained his
02:52:35 injuries what was he like as as a young man was he was he in good health he was in excellent Health was he an active young man very active what sort of things did he enjoy doing football Cricket
02:52:43 Cricket rugby and he liked uh oh what that game martial arts martial arts
02:52:58 yes I want to move on now to uh what happened to uh Trevor in 1987 all right and you deal in your witness statement with the circumstances in
02:53:16 statement with the circumstances in which Trevor came to get hurt so far as you've managed to to ascertain them to be
02:53:22 with your assistance uh I just want to go through a little bit of what about what happened uh with Trevor and if you think any
02:53:35 uh with Trevor and if you think any important details been missed out please just say so I will and you can fill us in all
02:53:37 in all right now I think um Trevor was out with two of your sisters so two of his aunts for New Year's Eve just after midnight yeah that
02:53:56 Year's Eve just after midnight yeah that is correct yes and that was Thursday the 1st of January 1987 is that right yes that's correct and there came a time when he was found himself alone outside a a club waiting for your sisters to
02:54:16 a a club waiting for your sisters to leave is that correct well what happened was as I was told that uh the two girls and himself got to the place yes and uh they went in to have a look what it was like in there MH Trevor waited
02:54:38 there MH Trevor waited outside on their return to report to him shall we go in or go home they couldn't find him no did they look for him yeah they complained to me and I started looking they looked uh before they left the area
02:54:52 they left the area I went back to the area and uh search all over and what area we sorry I interrupted you but what area we talking about Mr ber mon Church Street Stock newon
02:55:05 yes was Trevor the sort of young man that would would go off without telling anyone not with those two girls that he was with they were as close as
02:55:18 glue I think it's right that you were were unable to track Trevor down until a few days later Sunday the the 4th of January is that right that is
02:55:29 4th of January is that right that is quite correct well we'll we'll look at in a moment what happened in the intervening days all right thank you uh what was the first
02:55:40 you uh what was the first thing uh that you did when you found out that Trevor had gone missing the first thing I did was I walked into stoon poista
02:55:54 and asked them if they had Trevor in
02:55:59 Trevor in custody because I know Trevor would having slight problems with his memory
02:56:14 having slight problems with his memory yeah and they said they did not have him was that on was that on the day of his disappearance the 1 of January yes
02:56:23 and I think you've just told us but just to confirm you were told that he wasn't at State Newington Police Station
02:56:37 yes did you continue to make inquiries of the police over the next few days I
02:56:39 days I did the second day I went to the police station to make inquiries again a whiff of photograph I Trevor I believe on the second day they
02:56:57 Trevor I believe on the second day they still maintain they did not have him in custody so are we into the 2nd of January
02:57:02 January now yes and was it just Stoke Newington Police Station that you approached or did you deal with any other of the local police stations we had members of the
02:57:19 police stations we had members of the family for in hospitals yeah phing all the family that we know Trevor could have gone
02:57:24 to i ph many many many establishment yes asking about him whether they've seen him we had
02:57:35 him we had no success of that at all now over the few days between Trevor going missing and
02:57:51 going missing and you finding out that where he was on the Sunday all right on the 4th of January so in in that period were the police able to assist you with Trevor's whereabouts at all not at all I believe that on the
02:58:05 all not at all I believe that on the second day when I went to the police station with a photograph of Trevor I do apologize for not saying that before I cannot remember every single action at that time but I was told that he's a 19 year old yes by the
02:58:20 told that he's a 19 year old yes by the cust to the officer maybe he has called for the
02:58:22 for the night that was what I was
02:58:33 told you explain in your witness statement that the day after Trevor went missing so the 2nd of January you formally completed the missing person's paperwork at Stoke Newington Police Station do you remember doing that that is quite
02:58:45 doing that that is quite true and were the police able to assist you with any information at that stage not at all
02:58:57 at that stage not at all sir that was a time when they told me the story about when he might have scored for the night he's a young 19y old might have scored for the night is that right yes what did you understand
02:59:12 that right yes what did you understand by that well at the time maybe his luck has changed for the night I see
02:59:23 now after you'd gone through that formal process of reporting Trevor is
02:59:37 missing and tracking him down on the Sunday did the police contact you at any stage not at all not at all the police didn't contact me eventually we I own many
02:59:48 me eventually we I own many prisons and then finally finally I had an answer at uh won from a Mr not supposed to mention names all right you spoke someone at brickton
03:00:13 right you spoke someone at brickton prison yes told me he had a young man in custody that uh since he got him he has not responded at all I asked his description and he told me the description so I decided to rush down there all right I got there I was told
03:00:26 there all right I got there I was told to wait but eventually Arrangement was made for me to see the person and it turned out to be Trevor I was shocked truly truly truly shocked the
03:00:39 shocked truly truly truly shocked the only thing I could have said to him boy you got a good body on you hold on in here I'll be back and he asked me why Dad
03:00:48 Dad why did they arrest
03:01:03 me just to understand your evidence correctly is it somebody at the prison who told you um that they had a young man in their custody or was it the police who told prison officer prison officer he was in charge of that
03:01:25 Wing were you told anything about Trevor's condition um by uh the person you spoke to at the prison he told me the young man was had not responded all to anything since he had him in
03:01:45 yeah I think it's right in your witness statement at Mr Bert monoville it's this is for your benefit at page four paragraph 1.8 um you explained that you were told that Trevor was incon incoherent is that right that is quite true and you were
03:02:00 right that is quite true and you were also told that he had sold himself is that right
03:02:12 yes now as a result of finding out that Trevor was in prison did you re-engage with the police
03:02:24 prison did you re-engage with the police yes I did what did you do I went back to stok newon police station and asked questions about Trevor and it was uh I'm not sure
03:02:42 Trevor and it was uh I'm not sure whether it was the same day or the next day that we were told that uh a story that he was found in a car covered
03:02:52 up the glass was broken and he was inside the car covered up I think just to clarify it was the car that was covered up not Trevor is that right the car was covered up with the window broken right and so they arrested him were you who did you speak to a
03:03:07 him were you who did you speak to a police officer custody officer custody officer all right and were you told um anything about the condition
03:03:18 told um anything about the condition Trevor was in when they when the police located
03:03:19 located him they said the owner of the vehicle went to go out on an errand with its vehicle he found the window broken
03:03:31 its vehicle he found the window broken yeah and Trevor was inside in the back
03:03:44 seat so they took him to court charge him with criminal damage he was so ill for them to take him upstairs to court that the magistrate had to come down to see him in the cell and
03:03:56 down to see him in the cell and committed him to brickston prison I see before we um just move on to to what happened with
03:04:09 happened with Trevor just casting your mind back please
03:04:17 please to that point in time where you'd found out he he was in Brixton prison and you'd gone back to stoke Newington police station yeah at that stage were the police able to tell you anything about where Trevor had
03:04:28 had been between the first no they did not tell me anything it was when I went back to them and uh they realized that I found Trevor yes and
03:04:47 yes and uh they had him in the prison I went back home after going to the police station and tell everybody where he was soon after that we had a phone
03:04:59 was soon after that we had a phone call that he's been rushed to hospital I see so we run to the hospital ourself now we'll we'll go on to that in due course Mr ber monoville but I just
03:05:10 due course Mr ber monoville but I just want to just want to ask you a couple of more questions about the period of time um when um Trevor had been arrest
03:05:21 time um when um Trevor had been arrest between Trevor having been arrested by the
03:05:25 the police uh and Trevor ending up at brickton prison all right um so the period of time between his arrest and the court proceedings that resulted in him ending up in brickton
03:05:39 brickton prison um did you find out anything about whether Trevor uh had been taken to hospital
03:05:50 Trevor uh had been taken to hospital whilst he was in police custody they did not tell me that they didn't tell you did you find out anything about that later later yes all right and I think it's right um that um you found out that he'd been taken to
03:06:01 you found out that he'd been taken to homon hospital um by the police twice whilst he was in their custody is that correct yeah I believe that uh we didn't
03:06:18 correct yeah I believe that uh we didn't find out about that until after a little while we found out about that from the custody record I see yes that he was taken to
03:06:25 hospital so sometime later you had access to the custody record which is a written document of his his time in police custody isn't it and that's when you realize for the first time that Trevor had had to be taken to hospital
03:06:39 Trevor had had to be taken to hospital more than once whilst he was in police custody all right I must uh let you know again that uh I might
03:06:50 uh let you know again that uh I might not have all my story is Blow by blow see because uh I remember everything now that you asking me questions that
03:07:01 questions that happen but I not I do not believe I have them in the proper sequence don't worry Mr ber monoville you've provided a very detailed witness statement which stands as part of your evidence thank you sir
03:07:12 as part of your evidence thank you sir you can use it to refresh your memory as much as you like yes and you're giving evidence about a very difficult period for you and your family I'm sure everyone in this room understands if sometimes a sequence of events isn't
03:07:24 sometimes a sequence of events isn't quite how it how it turned out right well I am glad that you say so because there was so much happening at the time that uh and all these things that was happening was things that we never
03:07:38 happening was things that we never dreamt about things that we at the time did not welcome at all
03:07:52 yeah now I think you explain in that witness statement and if it assists you um this is a paragraph 1.9 on page 4 uh that you uh uh learned that Trevor had been sent to prison on the Saturday so the 3rd of January is that correct yes that's when
03:08:06 January is that correct yes that's when uh you found out he he' been produced at the magistrates Court wasn't well enough to physically be brought up to a courtroom and then remanded in custody to to brickson pris y that is quite
03:08:22 to to brickson pris y that is quite true at the time when all these things happened I was in the prime of my life but now I've aged
03:08:28 aged to 8s plus yes so I cannot as I mentioned before put
03:08:40 cannot as I mentioned before put everything into Secrets but I can answer your
03:08:53 your questions please forgive me for that nothing to forgive Mr B mon now um you also found out um
03:08:55 out um that um he whilst in prison um Trevor was um described as
03:09:07 prison um Trevor was um described as being in a come state is that right well I found him in that state yeah yes he had swelling and bruising to his left eyelid is that correct all over
03:09:20 eyelid is that correct all over including bruises is under his the his feet yeah the soul of his feet scratches across his wrists was something else I think was noted his whole body had bruises yeah I couldn't get his clothes off but what I did
03:09:37 get his clothes off but what I did see it was every part of the body that I saw and I think it's right uh you discovered that on the day of his remant to prison so on the
03:09:48 to prison so on the Saturday um he was taken to King's College Hospital for treatment is that right yes before as I mentioned previously before I could get
03:09:59 get organized after seeing him in prison when I finally got home after the police
03:10:07 police station we had a phone call telling us that he was rush to the Morley Hospital Morley okay yeah
03:10:26 uh he was eventually returned to prison is that correct yes no not from the mle no right from the mle I had to rush there to give permission for them to ah yes operate on his head all right we're cross purposes all right so I think you're you're slightly ahead of time
03:10:40 you're you're slightly ahead of time than me yes yes as I said so I don't worry I know the story but uh to put in everyday likeness that is my problem don't
03:10:51 that is my problem don't worry just sticking with the the Saturday when he first ended up at brickton prison I think you explained in your witness statement that he had to be taken to King's College
03:11:04 taken to King's College Hospital yes where bruising across the shoulders were was um
03:11:15 shoulders were was um recorded yes and they say he had a blood clot on the side of his head and I just want to revisit with you um your visit to um Trevor in prison all right and what what you
03:11:29 right and what what you saw I think it's right that he was being detained on in a hospital wing of the prison is that correct yes it was Sir and you explain in your witness statement
03:11:38 statement that you saw him and this is much like the evidence that you've just given with injuries all over yes um you describe his head being covered with bumps is that
03:11:53 that right very true sir uh that he was suffering back pain is that correct yes um if it assists you I'm looking at paragraph 1.10 of your witness statement which is at page
03:12:08 witness statement which is at page four um that Trevor Trevor's left eye was black and P puffed up yes sir his right eye was in an abnormally fixed position yes yes sir the inside of his mouth
03:12:24 the inside of his mouth swollen yes sir bloody lips yes sir um slack open mouth yes sir and bruises uh all over the body including the feet as you've
03:12:36 the body including the feet as you've described earlier yes sir and you tell us that Trevor was uh covered in congealed blood and scabs is that right yes sir and that his hair was was matted with with dried vomit is that correct
03:12:59 yes you also explain in your witness statement that prison staff and you've touched on this a little earlier explained you that Trevor had been semi
03:13:12 been semi comos that is true he had to be washed twice yes and that he'd suffered a number of convulsions or seizures um uh whilst initially in custody is that
03:13:27 whilst initially in custody is that right yes sir had seizures ever been a problem before for Trevor no Trevor never had any what you'll call sickness at
03:13:39 all how well could Trevor communicate when you uh first saw him in in the prison well I recall now that I'm looking at this and he did ask me that
03:13:50 looking at this and he did ask me that more than once what did they arrest me Dad yeah why did they arrest me the bastards
03:13:53 bastards yeah and he could hardly speak
03:14:05 really now you have uh touched on this already but um Trevor was
03:14:11 was taken uh to the morsley hospital is that right that is true sir uh and transferred there because of a suspected brain injury is that correct that is very
03:14:27 true and you told us you attended the hospital uh do you remember telling telling us that a moment ago yeah we attended the hospital as quickly as we could I was not alone at this time yeah had other members of the
03:14:43 had other members of the family and uh when we got there there was a policeman at Trevor's Ward guarding him so by the time we were let in to
03:15:00 him so by the time we were let in to visit Trevor yes the policeman said that uh he has to go the charges have been dropped all right you know so he left and then we had little access to Trevor and give permission for him to have
03:15:15 permission for him to have the surgery yes he required surgery didn't he yes yeah so I think it's right and you explain in your witness statement this is at paragraph 1.12 for your assistance page five that when you saw him he was not
03:15:32 five that when you saw him he was not verbally responsive is that correct that is very
03:15:34 is very true and his condition was very bad at the time yeah struggling to move on one side is that right uh and he'd had some further seizures is that correct yes sir
03:15:48 seizures is that correct yes sir and injuries remain bruising around the eyes elbow knees shins blood clots those sorts of injuries were still apparent is that right yes sir and you explained
03:16:03 that right yes sir and you explained that he underwent some investigations whilst he was at the morsley they x-rayed him and they they um undertook a CT scan is that correct yes and it was found that he had a
03:16:22 yes and it was found that he had a fracture to the right temporal lobe and a hemorrhage and swelling to the right side of his brain is that correct yes sir and that was the reason uh why
03:16:30 uh why um it was decided that uh Trevor had to undergo surgery is that right yeah that time he had to have a emergency brain
03:16:44 time he had to have a emergency brain surgery to moove to remove a blood clot from the surface of his brain
03:16:52 now you explain in your witness statement that you spoke to staff medical staff at the hospital this is at paragraph
03:17:07 1.13 uh I did you spoke to a doctor
03:17:17 yes and did the doctor say anything about how they thought Trevor might have got his
03:17:27 injuries they said it was a blow to the head so you what you were being told was that the head injury was consistent with a blow having received a Blow To The Head is that right yes a heavy Blow To The Head I
03:17:46 see um Trevor I think was at the the morsley for two nights is that correct no is it longer yes Trevor was
03:17:57 correct no is it longer yes Trevor was there for at least three weeks or more I see forgive me yes surgery um was undertaken to remove the blood
03:18:08 um was undertaken to remove the blood crot from the surface of the brain is that correct that is true all
03:18:21 right and I think think you go on to explain in your witness statement that um your
03:18:27 um your solicor also spoke to um one of the doctors at the hospital yes and was told that TR had a degree of brain damage skull
03:18:42 degree of brain damage skull fracture injuries to the left eye nose elbows knees and shins is that right that is
03:18:54 that is true a and um that that doctor explained to you uh or explained to your solic forgive me that that that sort of multiple
03:18:59 multiple injury was inconsistent with somebody having a having a fool is that right yeah it wasn't one single blow it was uh multiple blows to the surface of the
03:19:10 multiple blows to the surface of the head had it been suggested to you at any stage that Trevor might have fallen over and that's how he he got hurt not by anyone no all
03:19:25 hurt not by anyone no all right not by anyone at that time it was quite a mystery to us how he sustained such a blow but nobody told us that it was a fall yeah and when
03:19:37 was a fall yeah and when Trevor before he went missing there was absolutely nothing wrong with
03:19:51 him uh you go on to explain in your um witness statement that sometime later a medical report was prepared by a neurosurgeon uh in relation to Trevor's injuries is that right yes uh I think Sam gal braith who who e either was a
03:20:04 Sam gal braith who who e either was a member of parliament as well or went on to become
03:20:06 to become one yeah Mr Sam brewe G Brath I think yeah g yep and the conclusions were that he'd
03:20:20 he'd sustained an inter cranial intracranial clot caused by assault not a fall not a fool yes
03:20:31 assault not a fall not a fool yes yeah and that the injury he sustained could have caused him having a weak arm is that
03:20:48 caused him having a weak arm is that right yes poor memory yes and behavioral abnormal abnormality is that right that is true that I mean all these things that I mentioned them all
03:20:53 all previously I just did not want to forget so many things yes and I as I mentioned I couldn't put things in sequence at the time not to worry
03:21:04 time not to worry yeah um it was concluded that the the bruise above the left eye was likely caused by a direct blow is that right yes uh although Mr gal braith couldn't
03:21:16 yes uh although Mr gal braith couldn't come to a conclusion as to whether that happened
03:21:19 happened uh before or after the the clot the blood clot de developed but uh said it was a separate injury nonetheless is that right
03:21:38 yes did you um speak to Trevor at any point shortly after he came out of surgery yeah we we did but uh we couldn't get anything out of Trevor he had
03:21:44 had uh all type of Hypes all over his body yes no we couldn't talk to him then it was a few days
03:21:55 was a few days later the exact day I don't remember but it was a few days later that we could get anything out of Trevor and what we did get out of him we couldn't
03:22:09 did get out of him we couldn't understand was he able to communicate to you in those following days in hospital what had happened to him not at all you've told us that um uh one on stage a police officer at the hospital told you that the the charges weren't
03:22:20 told you that the the charges weren't going to to be pursued against him is that right the charges were to Dro yeah right and the policeman
03:22:30 policeman left and eventually I think Trevor was discharged from hospital to home is that correct yeah he was discharged to home and I took him home with
03:22:41 with me could you tell us where you were living at the time at the time I lived in
03:22:54 in seven I lived in Hackney at the time hne yeah and had you been in that same home for for some time up until that point
03:23:07 for for some time up until that point can you remember how long you'd been in the in the house yes that was my first wife all right I was married to this young lady and uh we live there all right so is that a convenient moment um we will break off now for an hour and could you be back to resume
03:23:20 hour and could you be back to resume giving evidence at two I will do sir much thank you thank
03:23:25 [Music]
03:23:45 you for