The witness 'Monica' provides evidence regarding her relationship with undercover officer Jim Boiling and the subsequent impact of his infiltration of Reclaim the Streets (RTS). She discusses the psychological manipulation she experienced, the nature of police intelligence reports written about her, and the long-term emotional trauma caused by the revelation of Boiling's true identity.
00:17:11 Good afternoon everybody. Uh this afternoon's proceedings are being broadcast by the live link with the usual 10-minute delay. uh those with mobile devices who are
00:17:22 uh those with mobile devices who are listening to the uh evidence uh behind the screen as indeed are everybody who will hear it on the live link um may use their devices to report what they have
00:17:33 their devices to report what they have heard in the hearing room uh but only after 10 minutes have elapsed since the event that they're describing. They may not be used for recording.
00:17:46 Thank you. Good afternoon. Um, October 1997 after six months of your relationship with Boiling, you ended
00:17:57 relationship with Boiling, you ended that relationship. Is that right? And how did that come about and why? I think on reflection
00:18:11 I in my head at the time I was
00:18:18 I was I think I might have been a bit dulu or delusional that's the modern way of saying it but delusional but I I wanted to remain monogous to Jim and I thought possibly I might if someone else
00:18:32 possibly I might if someone else my mom would say gave me the glad eye might find myself going and so that was kind of in my mind but I think also I think he's
00:18:46 Nidy behavior sometimes his way of treating me was probably having an effect as well which I think was probably intentional on him. There was a phone call we had um
00:19:00 on him. There was a phone call we had um I don't know exactly when it was but it was after the end of the relationship where he I talked about in my statement are okay to talk about now and he was like emotional and crying and he said to
00:19:11 like emotional and crying and he said to me I did want away from you but I'm upset that's all. And him crying at that stage was it
00:19:22 And him crying at that stage was it because he was missing you? Did he tell you that? Well, he said he said, "I wanted away from you and now I'm kind of missing you. I'm upset." So, I only have those words that
00:19:34 upset." So, I only have those words that to say.
00:19:35 to say. And what effect did that have on you?
00:19:40 Well, I felt for him. And I also I don't know. It's It's very hard looking back over like a long amount of time to something that you now know is incredibly twisted. Um,
00:19:53 I couldn't have thought that. Well, I thought [clears throat] I think I thought that at least he cared. It showed that he had cared. I don't really know what I thought, but I had empathy that for his feelings.
00:20:09 You had sex on one final occasion after the breakup, didn't you? Yeah.
00:20:14 Yeah. And you explain in your witness statement that Boiling almost manipulated you into this final sexual encounter. Can you explain
00:20:25 final sexual encounter. Can you explain what you mean by that? Well, we'd met up. We were walking in a park and I was talking about this guy that
00:20:36 talking about this guy that um something had happened with that surprised me and but I was just sharing cuz
00:20:43 cuz and then we went back to his his flat and he was talking to me and we sat cross-legged on the floor opposite each other and he kind of anyone who knows him
00:20:54 him how he presented. He used to look up with his eyes as a little dough eyes thing and he kind of in [clears throat] kind of said that we'd be all right with for him if we had sex. And I didn't
00:21:06 for him if we had sex. And I didn't really want to but because he did I did. Um
00:21:12 Um why did you because you thought he did? Cuz that's the kind of unconscious aspect of my personality. I trying to do what I think other people want me to do.
00:21:24 what I think other people want me to do. And how did you feel afterwards? I didn't feel good. It didn't feel good. It It didn't feel right. It wasn't something I wanted to repeat. You say in your witness statement at
00:21:36 You say in your witness statement at paragraph 3.59 that in hindsight, you think that the sense that you could hurt him was a naive feeling and that in fact it was your own
00:21:47 and that in fact it was your own insecurities mirrored back to you. Is that the sense that you have now [sighs] looking back at that event? Yeah, I think I was, like I say, delusional.
00:21:59 delusional. I think I've thought about this a lot because it was a question in my R9, but there's a point at some point maybe in the Hearn interview where I say I think I thought Jim was vulnerable.
00:22:12 think I thought Jim was vulnerable. I'm quite unconsciously conscious, which doesn't maybe make sense of things. I pick things up without knowing. So I think maybe I did pick up on the vulnerability of living a complete lie and betraying everyone that you knew,
00:22:25 and betraying everyone that you knew, but it wasn't the vulnerability that it wasn't what to say.
00:22:33 It's it must be incredibly hard to be playing such a game. So, not only you'd playing the game of being a um
00:22:44 playing the game of being a um really wellthought Metropolitan Police officer who everyone thinks is amazing, but you're also lying to all the people around them in order to deceive them. It's not a game I could play. It's quite
00:22:55 It's not a game I could play. It's quite a full-on game. It must feel quite lonely on some level to be able to be your real authentic self, whatever that is, with anyone around you. So, maybe I
00:23:06 is, with anyone around you. So, maybe I picked up on that. I don't know. But obviously now I know who he really was. So
00:23:16 has that put a slightly different spin on it
00:23:20 on it for you now? A slightly different spin is a kind of that understatement. Sorry, I don't mean about the relationship. I mean about the the the sense of mirroring.
00:23:32 sense of mirroring. Can you explain what you mean exactly? just
00:23:36 just um you talked about having a sense of picking up on somebody's vulnerabilities and insecurities. Oh, was he mirroring me? Yes. Was he mirroring you? Do you think?
00:23:49 Yes. Was he mirroring you? Do you think? I don't know. I I I mean, I can't say. You know what I mean? It's like [sighs]
00:24:08 When you don't know the full information, you think that you're living in a particular reality and a person is who they say they are. But that's a deception. You can't know what's really going on with that
00:24:20 what's really going on with that deception because you're blind to it. So unless and people are like that. People are blind to things that are happening in plain sight and then all of a sudden it's obvious like you have it with like people like Jimmy Sav and certain things
00:24:32 people like Jimmy Sav and certain things where people just don't know it's happening and then they it's revealed and it's like how could we not see that bit like that I don't really know to be honest I'd like to look at some of the
00:24:43 honest I'd like to look at some of the reports that were written by boiling post your relationship um the first one is behind tab B19 it's MPS uh uh 460
00:24:54 is behind tab B19 it's MPS uh uh 460 61. It's dated the 24th of October 97. So I think this is probably just after the you had uh called off the
00:25:05 the you had uh called off the relationship.
00:25:09 I can have that up on the screen please.
00:25:16 Um it talks about group morale um organizational problems. The strike oil weekend that you had been organizing have been cancelled. And in particular,
00:25:29 have been cancelled. And in particular, paragraph two about halfway down. That failure, he says, served only to convince the core group of the inability
00:25:41 convince the core group of the inability of the wider meeting to organize itself effectively, which coupled with a growing belief that many Tuesday regulars have only a limited understanding of the group's ideological
00:25:52 understanding of the group's ideological basis, has resulted in the current split.
00:25:56 split. Do you recall that split happening or did you see it as a split
00:26:12 it's as what I'm aware of is a little bit of writing I have down here with the thing and then above it I can see intelligence psycho dream and that's just what that
00:26:23 psycho dream and that's just what that is it's intelligence there was and I know that Roger Geffin is speaking tomorrow and I think he was he was part of this creative group within Reclaim
00:26:35 of this creative group within Reclaim the Streets that had a lot of amazing um and reclaim the streets did struggle with
00:26:44 with being able to replicate the creativity this is my words I'm not saying this is how it is of that that c these are the words that get
00:26:55 that c these are the words that get taken out of context but core group built on friendship and commitments and certain energy that comes together you get that in all creative fields so yeah I don't remember I don't really
00:27:07 so yeah I don't remember I don't really even know what sheess action is you know this he was operating on like you know like a hoover wasn't he as they say and he's hooing all this up and expressing it to his um the powers that are
00:27:21 it to his um the powers that are governing him I can't really comment on it
00:27:24 it can you recall sure what part boiling played in the the dynamics of the group at this stage. Did he take one side or the other? Was he involved in one particular part of the group or
00:27:35 particular part of the group or I think he was probably more interested in the dynamics of the group and that's what things would get talked about more. So he was
00:27:46 about more. So he was I can he was a metropolitan police officer. He was doing his hoovering job but he was to a certain extent trusted. I can't speak about these things so much. I mean I I think Ruth statement I
00:27:59 much. I mean I I think Ruth statement I think at this point would be quite useful. Um so yeah. Is that okay? Yeah. Yes, of course. Um did you have any sense of him having any influence
00:28:10 any sense of him having any influence over who was in what group or I think he had an interest. I couldn't say whether he had an influence but to go back to
00:28:21 go back to what before the break you know that he was central in organizing the the um never mind the ballots and that weekend that was planned
00:28:33 that weekend that was planned and what effect did this split if you can call it that have on the group's ability to organize um as I say reclaim the street or maybe
00:28:44 um as I say reclaim the street or maybe not just to try going to say reclaim the streets was an open ex I was going to say an open church but it was a space that was open after just a bit of context so after the main street the big
00:28:56 context so after the main street the big street in M41 that the core group the people who kind of created it were wanting to garner the energy of lots of people coming to the meetings and there
00:29:08 people coming to the meetings and there were different views on how that should be done
00:29:11 be done um but it was never anything that really I was involved with so what would say it was there was a desire to be able to bring people together to do actions, but I think that was more easily said than
00:29:24 I think that was more easily said than done and and so there's a lot of like in that movement there's a lot of ways of looking at organizing and how people communicate because it's not that straightforward
00:29:35 because it's not that straightforward especially when you're infiltrated from within and you have things like Extinction Rebellion that came later where there had been a lot of thought of how we can communicate a lot of people have been involved in things that bigger things have happened and developed. So
00:29:47 things have happened and developed. So it I think this split and I think all this kind of thing is the narrative narrative of boiling. It's not like he wasn't informing on certain things that were happening. But I suppose as an
00:29:58 were happening. But I suppose as an individual person at this time it wasn't something that I was necessarily massively focused on. I was going through my own
00:30:09 going through my own personal stuff. Looking at the next report where you're mentioned, it's from the 31st of October 97.
00:30:19 97. So again, another um uh uh Halloween report B 20 MPS
00:30:29 MPS 40638.
00:30:50 This is in relation to a report of a small number of reclaiming the streets activists, including the mentioned prominent figures, that's you and another person
00:31:01 figures, that's you and another person who's been redacted for privacy, are heading off to the Midlands next week to establish the first protest camp on the route of the Birmingham North relief road. Uh and and the logic of this
00:31:12 road. Uh and and the logic of this preemptive strike is beusing other activists as the contract for the workers yet to be awarded and the route itself won't be cleared until 99. Um what do you say about that? Was that
00:31:24 what do you say about that? Was that something that was planned, organized by you and another person? Um I have put this in my statement. Um,
00:31:39 is this the one that has because they just want to live up a tree? Yes.
00:31:43 Yes. Yeah. If you take if we can just reduce that down again and we can see the source comment at the bottom. Source comment. It's widely presumed that they just want to spend the winter up a tree. Um,
00:31:55 Um, okay. So, the Birminger I grew up near where that road goes. Um
00:32:03 Um and it was a place that had been open cast mind. Uh is my conjecture that when you strip the land and take away from it, you
00:32:14 the land and take away from it, you don't really it takes a long time for that land to recover, it's um you know Loki, it's the energy of a space.
00:32:26 space. um
00:32:29 um which I didn't realize affected me, but now know I know that it did. And there was a place I used to walk my dog and my dad used to we walked the dog and there was some water and um some trees.
00:32:42 was some water and um some trees. There's lots of rubbish and stuff, but there was and it it was a rare space of nature and that road was going through it.
00:32:51 it. So I used to in my mind and my passion used to fantasize about protecting that space.
00:33:00 space. Um, so I think this report is just Jim reporting on the things he has to listen to my conjecture, my imagination talking about a desire to do something which I I
00:33:13 about a desire to do something which I I really struggled to do because I yeah um so I did during this period go back to where I grew up and I spent some time with my dad. Obviously my mom hadn't
00:33:25 with my dad. Obviously my mom hadn't long died and I was struggling in London. I think I was struggling with my issues. [sighs] Um
00:33:34 Um and so I took some and I was struggling with the strike oil not working um actually. And so I kind of left and thought that I maybe would go and stay there and at some point maybe in the
00:33:46 there and at some point maybe in the future if I get a job I've got a job there working in nursing home and I was going to stay there and maybe get involved in some of this stuff. Um c can
00:33:57 involved in some of this stuff. Um c can I ask the way that it's written up? How does how does it make you feel now looking at the language that's used and the
00:34:05 the Oh very worrisiesome. I mean, it's just and and it's just the hoover of them hoovering up intelligence and then putting little snidey bits in when they can cuz it's good laugh,
00:34:16 can cuz it's good laugh, you know? It's like when you're it's like they're kind of like puppet, you know, they're in a position where they know things. They also totally believe themselves to be superior to us, hence
00:34:27 themselves to be superior to us, hence the term we're hence the way that they look at us in degrading inferior ways like the squalid squats and all this kind of stuff. They think they're superior and they know, you know, they
00:34:40 superior and they know, you know, they Yeah.
00:34:41 Yeah. And in fact, was was it accurate this report?
00:34:43 report? Well, I wanted to spend winter of a tree.
00:34:47 tree. Um, no, I didn't. [snorts and laughter] Um,
00:34:53 yeah, it's not accurate, but I I when I look at it, I think it's part of my passion being expressed to someone I thought was a close person to me, then being recycled into a sneery
00:35:06 being recycled into a sneery intelligence report. And was it an I an idea as opposed to a plan?
00:35:12 plan? Yes, totally. Um
00:35:15 Um the next report is behind tab B21.
00:35:21 It relates to the stone broom opencast mine. Is that the m the opencast mine you were just referring to? No. No. What I was saying when I talked about opencast mine is um when land is
00:35:32 about opencast mine is um when land is open cast. I grew up in a house that was built on land that had been opencasted. Where I grew up there was coal and and most of that had been close to the surface. So the land got stripped and then they put housing estates on it.
00:35:46 then they put housing estates on it. So this open cast mine is something separate. This is a different That's a quarry I think not an open cast mine.
00:35:54 mine. Okay. And this is Darisha way I think is Yeah. Did you make your way up there up to this event then that took place on the 31st of October 1997?
00:36:05 the 31st of October 1997? Yeah. There was a coach organized and I just went on the coach with other activists.
00:36:13 Um, paragraph two, sorry, page two, paragraph two.
00:36:25 Oh yeah, I think we were on page two. That's right.
00:36:32 It's it says in stark contrast to recent uh shambolic environmental protests, this was a well planned and meticulously prepared event primarily organized by the veteran squatters rights campaigner
00:36:44 the veteran squatters rights campaigner Privacy together with the even more senior Ernest Rodka. Um do you recall exactly what happened on this occasion? Do you remember
00:36:55 on this occasion? Do you remember arriving at the open cast? Yeah. Um what happened for me personally? Yeah.
00:37:02 Yeah. Um
00:37:05 there was an early start. Uh we got outside of the open cast and there was this moment where we were supposed to be like waiting to go in like to take you know like like I was
00:37:16 like to take you know like like I was waiting to get a signal to go in. Um
00:37:22 Um I think I remember at that time being stood next to Jim but I don't know if that's the case. And then we went in. Um, what do you want? What do you want me to say? Were you expecting the police to attend?
00:37:33 Were you expecting the police to attend? Um,
00:37:35 Um, I think at this point, if I'm honest, I was struggling and
00:37:44 well, I am passionate about the envir the these things that were part of reclaim the streets and the wider protest movement at the time. I
00:37:55 wider protest movement at the time. I think a lot of that time I was struggling so I kind of didn't really want to be there and uh personally speaking I wandered around the the open cast for the day. The police never
00:38:06 cast for the day. The police never turned up. I think the under thing that bullings reports on I wasn't really aware of
00:38:12 aware of so I I was just again like to say the word but a bit of a foot soldier. We can see at page three of the report paragraphs four and five
00:38:25 that it became apparent once you were in the quarry that the Darbisha constabularary had not dispatched a task force to deal with the invasion. So the police didn't turn up that day and um
00:38:37 police didn't turn up that day and um instead
00:38:39 instead a bit of um criminal damage was done to the equipment that was there in the quarry and after a couple of hours activists then made their way to the local cafes and hung out until the the
00:38:51 local cafes and hung out until the the coaches were ready to take you back. Yeah. Uh
00:38:54 Yeah. Uh is that
00:38:56 is that how you remember the day panning out? Um yeah, I think so. I I wasn't Yeah, I I felt very alienated that day. Personally speaking, I felt quite a
00:39:07 Personally speaking, I felt quite a level of alienation that was just personal. But yeah, I [clears throat] think that is what happened. And when you got back onto the coach, then you sat with Boiling, didn't you? Did you fall asleep on him on the way? That's what I remember.
00:39:22 Um, what was his reaction then to you asking to come back to his flat on that occasion? I kind of I just remember it being quite platonic. It's like just a bit of safe, you know,
00:39:35 It's like just a bit of safe, you know, where you just feel like you can just relax on some level. You said that you felt safe in his company
00:39:42 company at that time. Yeah. Um and and you say in your witness statement that you did sleep together platonically. Yeah. As far Well, I don't know where I I assume we slept together. We definitely there was no intimacy
00:39:54 definitely there was no intimacy as I remember. I don't know if I do you know what I I don't remember, but it it wasn't there was nothing sexual as far as I'm aware. The next report where you're named is uh
00:40:05 The next report where you're named is uh behind tab B22 MPS 40730 from the 8th of December 97.
00:40:25 And again, if I give you a moment just to have a a quick look at that.
00:40:39 Um this is about um f a further meeting and further plans um about the strike strike oil uh campaign
00:40:51 and the street party in May has been an option for a further demonstration.
00:41:00 Do do you remember being present for that meeting? Um am I down as being present?
00:41:07 Um over the p if we can go to page two please
00:41:17 your name is there but at the top of the page it says the following three people also attended but have now been excluded from the group. Do you remember that? What I remember about this is I think to do with the
00:41:30 about this is I think to do with the previous So I'm getting a bit tired. Um previous intelligence report about the um struggles within reclaim the streets to effectively organize outside of the
00:41:42 to effectively organize outside of the main
00:41:43 main core group. Um that there was a a desire to ask people who were kind of considered for it to come to a meeting.
00:41:56 for it to come to a meeting. um to discuss going into another sorry I'm tired um [clears throat]
00:42:06 so going in like to another like close maybe a closed group that could start to function. And it would have had I think it had some people from that and then other people um and so I was at the
00:42:18 other people um and so I was at the initial meeting and that was um and so was Jim but we went together but we discussed it. So I don't believe that
00:42:29 we discussed it. So I don't believe that those people including myself were excluded. We just decided we didn't want to carry on with it. And from my understanding, it was the beginning of being involved in that group where it
00:42:40 being involved in that group where it wasn't that long before Boiling became intimate with Ruth. We can see um Jim Sutton is listed on page one and Ruth is also listed there
00:42:53 page one and Ruth is also listed there in that same group as well. Were they not together by that stage? No, but I don't think it was that long after that group formed that they got together. Was there anything in that that caused upset or disruption within
00:43:05 that caused upset or disruption within the group? What um any anything within the the like division in the group or anything about Jim Sutton or Jim Boiling's relationship
00:43:18 Jim Sutton or Jim Boiling's relationship with Ruth that caused division within the group? I wouldn't be aware of it if it had, but I I don't know. I don't I I mean I haven't read Ruth's statements. I don't
00:43:29 haven't read Ruth's statements. I don't know. It wasn't it wasn't something I was involved with. [sighs and gasps] Uh the next report is behind tab B23
00:43:43 and that's from the first of May 98 and it's an intelligence report on rec reclaim the streets and the difficulties in reorganizing the North London Street Party.
00:43:55 Party. Um were you involved in organizing the Street Party? I was part of the group that was organizing it, but I I also personally at the time was struggling, but not meant to be conscious that I was struggling as much as I actually was.
00:44:08 struggling as much as I actually was. You'd been evicted, I think, from the squatted community center library in Finbury Park and you tried to squat a a former DSS building in Dston, but the alarm had gone on had gone off and it
00:44:21 alarm had gone on had gone off and it was linked to the local police station because it was an old government building. But you were arrested on that occasion of of attempted robbery. Is that right? Well, Hackne police came um in their
00:44:33 Well, Hackne police came um in their full force. Um it was pretty uh intense. Um
00:44:42 Um and they actually fabricated a case against two of the people who were involved
00:44:48 involved um that they had assaulted them. Uh and they were taken to court and found guilty of assaulting two police officers who'd made sure that they'd cut themselves getting in through the window. The police officers they made
00:44:59 window. The police officers they made sure they got it on each other. And uh the magistrate initially found them guilty of assaulting police officers. But then they had when you have a squat, they put this metal thing called Scitex
00:45:11 they put this metal thing called Scitex at the front of it. And in the police's story, these uh these a school teacher and a dowist monk kind of boy had um pushed the the siteex up on the police.
00:45:24 pushed the the siteex up on the police. It was something. It was it was that was their point. Uh the police's story which um and then they got a sciteex expert in at the appeal and said, "Well, that couldn't well the police's story was
00:45:35 couldn't well the police's story was impossible and that couldn't have happened." And luckily their their convictions were squashed. So I'm basically saying that the Hackne police came full on uh quite intense and
00:45:47 came full on uh quite intense and fabricated assault charges. But yeah, we let the idea of squatting the old DSS center go to our heads. [snorts]
00:45:55 [snorts] Within two weeks, we have a special branch briefing note on you specifically. It's behind tab C2 MPS 0730815.
00:46:10 So this is the 11th of May 98 and we can see your name at the top of the the report
00:46:18 report and code name perpetual motion next to it. Now we can see down at the bottom the last paragraph says as part of operation lauder a general lifestyle
00:46:31 operation lauder a general lifestyle surveillance of Monica would be beneficial together with any information concerning her involvement in the in the planning of the above event such as reconoitering of potential sites and
00:46:42 reconoitering of potential sites and meetings with other environmentalists. So if that can be taken down please.
00:46:50 Oh, sorry, not that just the um enlarged paragraph. But if we can keep the document itself up, we can see that this is in relation to the North and South London um events for street parties.
00:47:06 And we can see that you're named as a a member of the North London Street Party Planning Group. And it's got your anticedants written down there with lots of detail about uh your um personal
00:47:19 of detail about uh your um personal details including looks. Mhm.
00:47:33 Um
00:47:36 the inquiry understands that civilians would be given code names when they're part of an operation. So when an operation is looking at them surveilling them
00:47:47 them uh as part of a wider operation. What do you think now? How do how does this make you feel when you're reading it? Which part the bit about my um appearance here
00:47:58 part the bit about my um appearance here or
00:47:59 or first off that there is this briefing note on you a particular u report on you giving you a a code name as part of a wider operation. I don't know. I mean I haven't seen any of the other reports on the other
00:48:11 of the other reports on the other people. So I don't know what their code names were. If I had some part of reference. Um I to be honest I don't know what the code names are about. the
00:48:22 know what the code names are about. the police say that they're they're just random.
00:48:26 random. Um, I could see that you you might think I was a perpetual motion, but I really don't know and I can't conject and especially without a wider context being able to see other reports of other
00:48:37 able to see other reports of other people who might be on that level kind of comment. I don't know.
00:48:49 Um, and a further report on the 16th of May 98
00:48:56 98 relates to the G8 protests in Birmingham. Do you remember those? That's behind tab B25 MPS0247630.
00:49:09 In your recollection, was that successful street party? in my um it was a a street party. It happened. It was in Birmingham.
00:49:22 was in Birmingham. Um
00:49:23 Um for me, I didn't enjoy
00:49:28 enjoy it. Yeah, I was struggling at that time. Um you're listed as being there simply. It doesn't say that you're an organizer.
00:49:39 It doesn't say that you're an organizer. Um
00:49:41 Um the next report is from the 6th of June 98. So the following month again it's to do with the uh reclaim the streets north and south London street parties which
00:49:52 and south London street parties which was scheduled around that time. And a further report on the 6th of June 98 which was in relation to a demonstration planned in Finbury Park.
00:50:03 demonstration planned in Finbury Park. So 6th of June 98. Do you remember those? You're simply named as being a part of the group. I haven't put them up on screen, but if you'd like me to put them up.
00:50:12 them up. Uh [sighs] is Yeah. Are these a North London, South London Street Parties? Yeah.
00:50:18 Yeah. Yes, I was. I was there. Okay. Um you didn't have any comment in relation to them in terms of their accur accuracy or anything in your witness statement. Um
00:50:27 Um it's simply as part of the chronology. Yeah. I mean, what I seem to remember was that um Jim was struggling to get intelligence on the North London Street Party from his reports, but no. If there's anything you think I need to
00:50:39 there's anything you think I need to comment on, then pop it up and I have a look.
00:50:41 look. Um, it was following that that you moved out of London. Is that right? So, following following June 98, you then leave or start to leave activism behind
00:50:53 leave or start to leave activism behind and become much more low-key in your activism. Is that is that correct? Yeah, I definitely um
00:51:03 yeah, I wasn't sure if I personally I personally was in
00:51:13 in improving anything. I didn't know whether like Yeah, I think that's it. I left
00:51:21 cuz I partly was I can obviously see now I was really struggling but I also wasn't sure about
00:51:32 wasn't sure about I could be on. So the street party for me
00:51:37 me um the 1996 one had a lot of focus. This I think for me this was I remember this is really personal. It's not to do with at other activists but I remember
00:51:50 at other activists but I remember feeling alienated at the street party and there was a lot of emotional relationship stuff going on before that. And I just remember as we were leaving looking down and there was loads of
00:52:01 looking down and there was loads of rubbish on the street and it I it upset me
00:52:05 me still upset and I just I think I just felt alienated from what I was doing. So like moving away from activism and um I was also
00:52:16 away from activism and um I was also started meditating at this point but I think that was also really helped to help me with my psychological problems to kind of ground and then I wanted to just
00:52:29 I just wanted to try and make things the relationship with the earth better you know naively and idealistically uh considering where we are now. And so I went looking towards getting involved
00:52:41 I went looking towards getting involved in permaculture and things like that. There is one further report on you which is from um it's behind tab B27
00:52:53 is from um it's behind tab B27 MPS01845.
00:52:58 The date is the 1st of March 99.
00:53:04 reports in relation to a Mayday event planning uh uh uh report but in fact it's paragraph three that relates to you and it talks
00:53:17 three that relates to you and it talks about the uh occupation of Caesar's offices in Paddington on Tuesday the 23rd of February
00:53:25 and reports that that action was organized by you. Yeah.
00:53:31 Yeah. Do you recall that action? I think I do. I don't recall organizing it, but I do recall that Civeras were um involved in
00:53:42 recall that Civeras were um involved in the building of the road through a place that was special for me. Um so I definitely went and I kind of can remember
00:53:54 and I kind of can remember being in a lift with a particular person who was a friend. Um so I think we got into the building. Uh there wasn't it's recently joined the exodus of London activists. I mean there wasn't Yeah, I
00:54:05 activists. I mean there wasn't Yeah, I think people moving to a place wasn't joined up. It just happened. Okay. Um was that a particularly eventful action? The occupation of the
00:54:16 eventful action? The occupation of the building?
00:54:17 building? Probably not by my memory of it. I remember we got in there I don't think we were in there that long. Okay. And was that one of the last events that you were engaged with at that time? Yeah, that there's another report about
00:54:31 Yeah, that there's another report about that I'm claimed to be organizing something that I'm not that I painted a banner for and turned up in London. Um, was this the J18 carnival against capitalism? No, it was the Justice for Simon Jones
00:54:42 No, it was the Justice for Simon Jones campaign from um Yes. Um, and that's reported on in a in a special branch report that I can take you to, but do you want to just Well, what about that?
00:54:53 Well, what about that? I was just It was The report says I was organizing it, but I painted a banner. Okay. So, you didn't really organize any of these events. So, come 1999,
00:55:04 of these events. So, come 1999, you're not really involved in organizing any events at all. Is that true? Yeah.
00:55:13 Yeah. And in fact, you attended the occupation of Cavverna's offices in Paddington and you made a banner for the uh for the justice campaign. Um but other than that, had your
00:55:25 Um but other than that, had your activity and your involvement in RTS dwindled quite considerably. I think my involvement in reclaim the streets was I moved away from that. Um my social circle was still when I moved
00:55:37 my social circle was still when I moved um was still I knew a lot of people who had an activist background or if they weren't actually activists that they'd been involved in the road protest movement
00:55:46 movement uh like in the tree camps. So those people were my social circle and um yeah, if I can take you then to the special
00:55:57 if I can take you then to the special branch file which is behind tab C4 of the bundle MPS 072 080
00:56:06 080 0.
00:56:12 You can see here um item three says the special branch registry to see an open file on subject as par 8 and we'll come
00:56:23 file on subject as par 8 and we'll come to that paragraph 8 in a moment over the page we can see that this is a a record file on you sorry should be on page two
00:56:49 can move can we move to page two?
00:56:54 Thank you. So we can see that this is your a record file got the number it's Monica and over the page
00:57:06 to page five.
00:57:11 You can see it's dated the 2nd of August 2000.
00:57:18 There's a reference number uh redacted in relation to you. And this report talks about comprehensive inquiries made
00:57:29 talks about comprehensive inquiries made regarding you described as a dedicated environmental activist prominent in the radical protest group Reclaim the Streets.
00:57:38 Streets. At paragraph two, it starts to go into details about your background, um, where you were born, your parents, your childhood address,
00:57:49 childhood address, and working through the, um, report. You can see there's a full description of you. There's a photograph of you, where they think you're currently living,
00:58:01 living, inquiries
00:58:03 inquiries at the DSS in relation to um your DVLA,
00:58:10 voters register, and then the police national computer. When we get to paragraph six and your entry on the police national computer, it shows a list of um antecedants.
00:58:25 it shows a list of um antecedants. You're familiar with this document. Is that right? And uh uh what it shows effectively is that there's some low-level offending on your part during the time uh that you were active in RTS.
00:58:39 the time uh that you were active in RTS. And the consequence of that was a caution, two fines, two conditional discharges, one of which was varied to 40 hours community service.
00:58:50 40 hours community service. Is that a fair summary of what that shows?
00:58:53 shows? I think the letter part, but the first two offenses um for me I was contextually um protecting woodland from being destroyed. So I don't call that an
00:59:06 destroyed. So I don't call that an offense
00:59:08 offense in a way. I know it is an offense and I know the narrative. I mean that was 30 years ago these things happened. But I also think that protecting
00:59:20 the nature or or not the ecology, the living systems of this planet that support all of life from being destroyed by the voracious
00:59:32 from being destroyed by the voracious need of capitalism to consume all the resources for this unending progress of consumerism. I don't think that's an offense. And we can see what that uh the way it's expressed in this report is uh
00:59:43 way it's expressed in this report is uh it's related to the Newbury bypass protest and on this occasion the subject wired herself to a tree in an attempt to prevent her removal from the site. Is that what you're referring to?
00:59:54 that what you're referring to? Yeah, I was involved in a collective action to protect woodland that we probably knew would end with the destruction of the trees, but we were still determined to do that. Okay. Paragraph seven relates to your
01:00:06 Okay. Paragraph seven relates to your participation in various uh actions.
01:00:12 And here I think this is what you're um relating to when it talks about the Simon Jones memorial campaign. And that was a campaign was it where somebody was killed in the construction
01:00:24 somebody was killed in the construction industry you say because of health and safety issues. Yeah. Um he had gone to work at a docks um as like agency labor and lack of
01:00:35 um as like agency labor and lack of safety meant that there was a grabber crane um and it ended up grabbing his head and he uh died. He was young. You're noted as one of the joint
01:00:47 You're noted as one of the joint organizers of that. But do you say that's not true? No.
01:00:56 paragraph. Sorry. The other person named with me was the person who just asked me to paint a banner.
01:01:02 banner. I knew him. So it was effectively the extent of your involvement. Yeah, cuz I knew him from the voluntary sector building that we both spent time in. It was like where big issue was and
01:01:15 in. It was like where big issue was and it was Yeah. Okay. Paragraph 8 is where it's set out that it's recommended that a an RF uh reference file be opened on this
01:01:28 uh reference file be opened on this subject that being you. Well, from that 2000. Yeah.
01:01:33 Yeah. Nice.
01:01:35 Nice. Um we saw earlier and in some of the reports that you did have an RF number from as early as um at 97. Yeah. The 21st 6 97. Yeah.
01:01:49 Yeah. The 21st 6 97. Yeah. So, how does this make you feel then reading this report that um this is the basis on which a a reference file was to be opened on you in 2000?
01:02:08 I don't know. I suppose it's like one of the things that we see in this process is this
01:02:15 is this narrative around subversion. Um
01:02:26 but it seems that the way we're supposed to think to not be considered subversive is quite limited by the the MI5
01:02:38 by the the MI5 uh the Home Office, the Metropolitan Police.
01:02:42 Police. Um it almost feels like
01:02:47 we will be spied on if we stand up for justice or stand up for how we perceive justice to be. Whether that's protecting people from having fascists
01:02:58 people from having fascists beaten them up or protecting the ecological system from destruction. um for wanting to live in different ways
01:03:09 um for wanting to live in different ways that aren't just as consumers of a capitalist system that serves very few people and serves the people who spy on us and infiltrate us. That seems to be so it's a little bit like this person
01:03:21 so it's a little bit like this person could still be dangerous or could still be considered to be subversive cuz she cares about a living system of the earth which gives her life. You I never went to Extinction
01:03:34 her life. You I never went to Extinction Rebellion protests. I never went because of this. You know, it took Extinction Rebellion 5 days of disrupting London to even get
01:03:47 days of disrupting London to even get listened to on the news cuz I was at home listening to it and I heard how the media closed them down. Well, you're just disrupting this rather than actually listening. And then there was
01:03:59 actually listening. And then there was that little window where they listened and they said, "Oh, let's have the um let's call a climate emergency or whatever it was." And then it all went quiet again.
01:04:10 quiet again. So, you know, it it's it's depressing. Um, moving on to page nine if I can on this report.
01:04:28 From the note written at the top, it appears that this is a a five-year review and was current as at the 6th of October 2005.
01:04:41 October 2005. And we can see that it looks like it's been printed out in 2005. You've just mentioned now that you didn't go to Extinction Rebellion because of what was happening uh what
01:04:54 because of what was happening uh what happened with um RTS. Yeah.
01:04:58 Yeah. Had your activities effectively stopped? Does that did it put a a chilling effect on your uh um engagement in uh civil disobedience or protest or
01:05:12 in uh civil disobedience or protest or anything like that?
01:05:17 When I left London, [clears throat]
01:05:21 I had this dream that there was the power of the police when they you know this power and the part in my dream is going but what can
01:05:32 part in my dream is going but what can you do? What can you do? There was this what can you do to try and
01:05:39 and the dreams this people are laugh but there were these people these two people in front of me and they went you've just got to go and like this sense of heart and connection and it stuck with me
01:05:53 and it stuck with me but in truth
01:06:00 it's heartbreaking to live at this time. It's heartbreaking to see how we haven't been able to change. It's heartbreaking to see the
01:06:11 change. It's heartbreaking to see the level of delusion that the human race is acting, the level of sociopathy, psychopathy, and narcissism that runs our world and
01:06:23 and narcissism that runs our world and how our voices are still being silenced. It's
01:06:29 It's it's crazy. And so I plant vegetables. I pick litter up from the riverbed when all the degrading plastic has been
01:06:40 all the degrading plastic has been washed away by the heavy rains because I that's all I can do cuz I haven't got a voice or a power to change anything. So I live as simply as I can and as kind as
01:06:52 I live as simply as I can and as kind as I can and I do my best because there's nothing else that I can do.
01:07:00 But I still have hope. But it's like the way I feel at the moment is like hope has to be hung drawn and quartered and have its endrails out in front of you for you to really leave it alone. Hope
01:07:12 for you to really leave it alone. Hope does spring eternal. But really, it just it's hard to have any hope. But you have to.
01:07:20 to. But yeah, it's a crazy world.
01:07:25 Can I take it? you you you don't involve yourself now in direct action and you hadn't at this time between 99 and 2005. I pick litterer. I grow vegetables.
01:07:38 I pick litterer. I grow vegetables. It's about as much direct action as I can handle. But I really respect people who do. And it breaks my heart where juries are not allowed to listen to the defenses of why they might have thrown a
01:07:49 defenses of why they might have thrown a piece of can of soup or they may have done whatever they've done because they have to find them guilty and send them to prison. Get people like myself,
01:08:00 to prison. Get people like myself, you know, it's like we can't look at this in isolation. We can't sit there and go all these bad officers when we don't even know what's going on right now.
01:08:09 now. you know it I'm sorry it's not without a context we can sit and look at it now but it's still going on the chis it's it's still happening so
01:08:21 so people aren't allowed to protest it's getting worse all the time um you've touched on some of the impact that the reporting has had on you
01:08:32 that the reporting has had on you and can I ask you a bit more about the impact now um in the last 10 15 minutes in relation to um the impact that the sexual relationship had on you with Jim
01:08:45 sexual relationship had on you with Jim Boing. You have you have addressed it in the evidence that you've given so far to a degree.
01:08:51 a degree. Um, in terms of the impact of the relationship at the time, you say in your witness statement that you did discuss your activities, the RTS
01:09:03 you did discuss your activities, the RTS activities with each other as a couple and you say that he was focused on what was the right direction to take in the movement and he was motivated to organize, take part in actions and
01:09:15 organize, take part in actions and willing to take risks. And you also say in your witness statement that uh you believed that Boing was committed to your shared world view and the RTS movement and your
01:09:27 view and the RTS movement and your shared political views and aspirations.
01:09:32 Did you ever have cause to question Boiling's commitment to the RTS cause? Personally, no. I kind of I kind of hate people at face value. I'm easily
01:09:44 people at face value. I'm easily manipulated. um not at the time. And as far as you can tell, to what extent, if at all, did his leadership and organization influence uh the
01:09:57 and organization influence uh the direction of the RTS group as a whole or the actions of its individual members?
01:10:05 members? I can't comment. I don't think that's for me to comment on. I don't think I'm in a position to comment on. But what I can say and what we have seen already his his manipulation and control from within just from what I witnessed has
01:10:18 within just from what I witnessed has prevented
01:10:19 prevented um freedom of expression um and
01:10:26 um and prevented things being discussed more widely in
01:10:32 widely in at the time that do need to be discussed. the effect of the relationship on you personally, how did that affect the level to which you involved yourself in
01:10:43 level to which you involved yourself in activism at the time? At the time, I don't think it did. You've spoken in your witness statement about stepping up and taking taking on
01:10:55 about stepping up and taking taking on um an organizational role. Does personally? Yeah. I think looking back over the time um since I found out about volumes to identity um at that time I can see that
01:11:10 identity um at that time I can see that I didn't have the skills and capacities to organize. I had a lot of passion but I didn't have the practicality and it's something because I've had to look back at it
01:11:21 because I've had to look back at it because of the um disclosure of who he really was. Um, and I do tend to be quite self-critical. And so it I've seen that I had more p I have more passion
01:11:34 that I had more p I have more passion than actual practicalities that I just don't think I developed those skills at school. In terms of once his true identity was revealed, what impact did that have on
01:11:46 revealed, what impact did that have on you? You say that that was around 2011 when it was first revealed in the Guardian article. I have
01:11:57 It's life-changing. I think I would say I don't really know what I can say to that. It's been so many different things over 15 years. How I thought about him two years after I got
01:12:09 thought about him two years after I got disclosure, 6 months after I got disclosure to this point now has varied and recently it varied again just very very recently within the last 48 hours I got a clearer insight and even today I
01:12:21 got a clearer insight and even today I get a clearer insight. So, it it's life-changing.
01:12:26 Um, you say in your witness statement at paragraph 7.3 that when you first found out it felt a bit like an explosion. I think it is like an explosion, but I would say that explosion still kind of
01:12:38 would say that explosion still kind of happening on some levels because of it. It's because explosions it slows time down. It's just like
01:12:48 it's
01:12:52 this is such a violation but it is also it is not just an individual thing. I think this is the truth. It's a collective violation on top of of a collective violating another collective
01:13:04 collective violating another collective of human beings having control and power over them. We live in a system where everything has power over and we never discuss power with. We never discuss how we could work together, how we could
01:13:16 we could work together, how we could live better, how we could improve ourselves as humans, how we could try to learn to live in peace with each other. It would take generations. We're caught up in this system that is a very few
01:13:27 up in this system that is a very few amount of people with a lot of power over how we live. And it's just that it's collective abuse of another collective group of people because they they're the ones in charge.
01:13:39 they're the ones in charge. You talk about power over people. What about as a an individual? You were a young woman at that time. Um you know is your your mind and body?
01:13:50 you know is your your mind and body? What do you what do you say about any power that was used over that? Well, it's a patriarchal entitlement fundamentally if you really look at it. It's like men have needs, which is something I know that he said once, you
01:14:02 something I know that he said once, you know, and and I my body doesn't have an individual right. My human rights don't exist because I'm a woman. It's such a violation and it's such a
01:14:14 It's such a violation and it's such a cold, calculated way of using people to get the needs of a few individuals met. And it's something that always has happened and still happens. It's in the
01:14:25 happened and still happens. It's in the news at the moment. It's women are objects often to the desires of men who have power and
01:14:36 the desires of men who have power and also it's it's just such a I can't don't have the words to be honest. It's such a negation of self. It's a negation of agency. They knew we wouldn't consent.
01:14:47 agency. They knew we wouldn't consent. But it doesn't matter because it serves their cause. And when you say you wouldn't consent, that's you wouldn't consent if you had known he was a police officer. Is that
01:14:58 known he was a police officer. Is that right?
01:14:59 right? I've said that many times. You know, it's it No, of course never. What about the way that uh Boiling wrote about you in the report? Do you have anything you you want to say about that?
01:15:17 I think all of them. So far that we've seen have shown as they come here and they take their oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and
01:15:28 to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that these people
01:15:34 don't follow the law. They don't really they think more about their power and their control than they do about anyone else. And I don't think they're able to
01:15:45 else. And I don't think they're able to reflect on that. And I've forgotten what your question is. So do you want to ask it again? It was about the way that you were reflected in the reports. Oh yeah, this nice contempuous. Um, yeah, I was thinking about this earlier.
01:15:57 yeah, I was thinking about this earlier. It's a bit like you're a dog almost like they pet you and then they say, "Oh, good." You know, then they they stroke you, but fundamentally they don't respect you and they don't
01:16:09 they don't respect you and they don't treat you well, but you're still occasionally quite fond of it, but you might take your anger out, your frustration out of it. And really, you know what's going on. I think it's like looking it's so difficult to express it,
01:16:22 looking it's so difficult to express it, but it's just disgusting. The behavior of the the whole the whole thing is disgusting. And having to be at home and listen to them, it it is disgusting. And
01:16:34 listen to them, it it is disgusting. And given that um the way it's you're reflected personally within the reports is just one of the other activists, how does that make you feel knowing that you did have a an intimate relationship with
01:16:47 did have a an intimate relationship with him? But I didn't have an intimate relationship with him really. He had sex with me for whatever reasons he did. I thought I had an intimate relationship with him, but I didn't.
01:16:58 with him, but I didn't. I had something else altogether, but I wasn't aware of it. He admits in his witness statement that he gave no consideration to the possible impact on you because he thought you
01:17:10 impact on you because he thought you would never find out. Um, how does that make you feel?
01:17:19 I'm sorry. I just thought I was just thinking of um
01:17:29 I suppose sometimes when you felt something for a long time, you can't just say, "Oh, that's how I feel." Do you know what I mean? Because it changes.
01:17:40 it changes. Of course, he gave no thought for me.
01:17:45 I was irrelevant to his startling career, wasn't I? I was irrelevant to his commendation. I was irrelevant to how well he was doing in infiltrating this group of weies. I was just, you know, want to swear, but I was just
01:17:57 know, want to swear, but I was just another
01:18:00 another I met his needs. I was a bit of a a bit of the other, bit of the activist, bit, you know, and like I'm sorry.
01:18:17 There's certain things we haven't touched on that I would like to speak about before the close. I I was just about to ask you. Those are all the questions I have for you, but if there is anything else
01:18:29 um
01:18:33 so some of the things that haven't come up are um in relation to Jim not being married, being divorced or going through that. And there's a line in his um when
01:18:46 that. And there's a line in his um when he's asked about cannabis and why he smokes at home when he says, "I would never flip my cover identity." In other words, I would never not smoke cannabis at home because that's part of who I am.
01:19:00 And that is not an excuse in any way. I'm not excusing any of the behavior. I'm saying that the SCS was started by MI5
01:19:11 the SCS was started by MI5 as a good means to infiltrate left-wing subversive environmental anyone who the state felt they wanted to control. So he was a deep swimmer. So that's the
01:19:22 So he was a deep swimmer. So that's the first relationship. Then he went on to Ruth and then he went on to Rosa. And Rosa's not able to sit here and I know you're
01:19:34 not able to sit here and I know you're going to try and listen to her evidence, but there is a car crash that happens in what happens there. I walked away from this car crash. Rosa didn't.
01:19:45 And that was unless the women who have who were so traumatized by these men suddenly leaving their lives hadn't tried to look for them, we wouldn't be
01:19:57 tried to look for them, we wouldn't be here now.
01:19:59 here now. And actually, if it wasn't for the fact that it came to light that the special demonstration squad had spied on the Dor the Lawrence family and the Lawrence family had already been through several
01:20:11 family had already been through several abuses by the state that it became such a question, we wouldn't be here now because at that first part before that happened, we didn't count. And so,
01:20:23 And so, and I touched already on um how things are now in the rights of protest being eroded all the time.
01:20:34 protest being eroded all the time. I really appreciate the inquiry. I really appreciate you listening to us. Um and I really appreciate the women and Tom for reporting on it and for for
01:20:46 Tom for reporting on it and for for seeing them stand here and lie. It's even to me who's being infiltrated at that highest level. It's shocking. I kind of want one of them to tell the
01:20:58 I kind of want one of them to tell the truth because I can see the system in operation, the system of power and protection and lying and it being the only way they know to live.
01:21:11 it being the only way they know to live. You know, is it they don't care about anyone else. They don't have empathy. That's how it seems. And these are the people who are controlling us. These are the people who are running society. We
01:21:23 the people who are running society. We need empathy. We need each other. We need to remember that we are all related and we're all connected to each other. And the last thing is like we're conscious. We're all conscious of each
01:21:34 conscious. We're all conscious of each other right now. That's an amazing thing. We live in a vast universe beyond measure and we're conscious and this society is what we do with it. It could be so much more. We could tend the
01:21:46 be so much more. We could tend the earth. We could garden. We could live in peace. We could do those things. But we'd have to really try very hard.
01:22:01 [snorts]
01:22:05 Monica, I have good enough. I have no further questions at the moment. We'll see if there's any further questions to be asked of you. Um, [clears throat] we always have this break to enable anyone who has questions
01:22:18 break to enable anyone who has questions they want council to the inquiry to put to suggest them and for your council to re-examine you and um we normally take 10 minutes to do that. Thank you.
01:37:02 Do I take it from the uh change of position? There are no rule 10 questions. There are none. Yes.
01:37:10 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
01:37:17 So Monica um is not I'm not going to ask Monica any questions but she would like to highlight something from her witness statement that's very important to her and it relates to the document MPS
01:37:31 and it relates to the document MPS 0720800
01:37:33 0720800 which was the last document that we were looking at um before the break and it's paragraph five of that witness statement. ment.
01:37:47 And what that paragraph does is it refers to um a li a driving license registered to an address which is the address of um Monica's father.
01:38:02 address of um Monica's father. And she says this uh about that in her witness statement. And I'm just going to read out her words from the witness statement. Reading this, I am deeply upset. I did
01:38:15 Reading this, I am deeply upset. I did absolutely nothing to warrant such an intrusion into my and my parents' privacy. Seeing my dad's name and job discussed in a special branch file has
01:38:27 discussed in a special branch file has been one of the most impacting things of this whole inquiry process. I am very angry about this. Dad died in 2022.
01:38:38 Dad died in 2022. And fortunately, I did not have to make a decision about whether to tell him about this invasion of his privacy, owing to this unwarranted characterization of me as a threat to
01:38:50 characterization of me as a threat to the British state. My father was part of the post-war generation. He served in the RAF. He worked hard all his life to support his family and did
01:39:02 his life to support his family and did all that society expected of him as best he could.
01:39:08 he could. I can't now discuss with him the fact that he got spied on. He would never have imagined that my efforts to make the world a better place had led to such intrusion into his life.
01:39:20 intrusion into his life. I'm glad in a way that I've been spared having to tell him that he had been abused and violated in this way. And that is paragraph 5.31
01:39:31 And that is paragraph 5.31 of her witness statement.
01:39:36 I don't have any other um questions or matters to bring to your attention sir.
01:39:46 Thank you. If there is anything further that you want to say you have the opportunity to do so. I'm well aware that this process has not been at all easy for you as it hasn't
01:39:59 been at all easy for you as it hasn't been for many people. I'm very grateful to you for seeing it through and for having the courage to come and sit in a
01:40:10 having the courage to come and sit in a a public hearing room all beard with protections to tell the account of what happened your story. Very grateful to
01:40:21 happened your story. Very grateful to you.
01:40:23 you. Thank you.
01:40:27 We'll resume tomorrow at 10.