Opening Statements - SDS Managers and Closed Hearings

Full transcript

00:10:05 mr melon

00:10:21 mr mellon good morning thank you

00:10:23 thank you this opening statement for tranche one phase three is made on behalf of tariq ali ernie tate and

00:10:38 behalf of tariq ali ernie tate and pierce corbin advance of the evidence to be given by special demonstration squad managers covering the period from 1968 to 1982.

00:10:39 to 1982. it should be read in conjunction with our two earlier opening statements dated the 25th of october 2020 and the 16th of april 2021.

00:10:50 and the 16th of april 2021. tariq ali gave evidence during tranche one phase one the first non-state corps participant who was spied on by the police to do so and pierce corbyn gave evidence during trench one phase two

00:11:03 evidence during trench one phase two ernie tate was unable to give evidence in person for reasons of ill health and his statement was read into evidence during tranche one phase one

00:11:14 during tranche one phase one sadly mr tate passed away in february 2021

00:11:18 2021 we have tried to avoid sir as much as possible

00:11:22 possible any repetition today of the same points that we have previously made for the avoidance of doubt we remain uh deeply concerned as i'm sure you appreciate about excessive delay and secrecy we adopt the submissions made

00:11:37 secrecy we adopt the submissions made about these and other general matters by the cooperating group of non-state co-participants and other non-state co-participants as none of the non-state court

00:11:52 as none of the non-state court participants who we represent are giving evidence during this phase we limit our remarks today to the following topics the tranche won phase four closed hearings the seven sds managers giving live evidence in the next few days uh disclosure and redactions

00:12:09 uh disclosure and redactions the relationship between sds and mi5 the development of sds in the 1970s and the future of the inquiry starting then with the closed hearings there is

00:12:15 there is now a submission something fundamentally wrong and unfair about a public inquiry into undercover

00:12:27 about a public inquiry into undercover policing departing from the principle of open justice and conducting closed hearings

00:12:28 hearings during which former undercover officers whose real names cover names and witness statements have all been withheld pursuant to restriction orders give

00:12:42 pursuant to restriction orders give evidence with police lawyers present but the non-state corps participants their lawyers and the public excluded this is precisely what happened sometime in the autumn of 2021

00:12:53 in the autumn of 2021 when five undercover officers um hn 2141

00:12:55 2141 109 302 and 341 were questioned by council to the inquiry in what are being called the tranche one phase four closed hearings

00:13:09 phase four closed hearings in the tranche one phase three hearing bundle the inquiry has disclosed the redacted transcripts of the evidence in closed session of the five undercover offices

00:13:18 offices and a 70-page document entitled unattributable excerpts from closed officer evidence according to paragraph 11 of counsel to the inquiry's second addendum disclosure

00:13:32 the inquiry's second addendum disclosure note regarding trench one dated the 14th of april 2022 around half of the total evidence received from these five officers has been published in the redacted transcripts and unattributable

00:13:44 transcripts and unattributable excerpts which obviously means that around half of the total evidence has not been published and will remain secret forever we have no idea

00:13:56 we have no idea why around half of what these five officers had to say in evidence during the closed hearings is being withheld other than the inquiry asserting in its disclosure note that

00:14:07 asserting in its disclosure note that the evidence is subject to reduction for reasons of public interest what does this mean we ask what public interest

00:14:13 interest whose public interest certainly not the public interest of those we represent who were spied upon learning the truth about the full nature and extent of the secret political

00:14:25 and extent of the secret political policing of which they were victims furthermore we're completely in the dark as to

00:14:36 as to why the evidence and the unattributable excerpts some of which is clearly relevant and significant and of interest cannot be attributed how in the circumstances are the non-state core participants supposed to participate

00:14:52 participate effectively and equally in at least this part of the inquiry in circumstances where the witness statements are withheld the opportunity to ask questions is denied and some of the evidence has not been attributed on any sensible view we submit closed hearings

00:15:06 hearings should have no place in a public inquiry into secret political policing particularly when the evidence concerns events that took place 40 or more years ago

00:15:18 ago why are anonymity and screens not sufficient safeguards furthermore all evidence in a public inquiry should be attributed

00:15:29 should be attributed how else can there be any accountability how else can the evidence be put into context

00:15:35 context by the non-state core participants and understood in relation to the overall evidential picture turning then to the closed offer officer evidence itself we find it incredible that hn 21

00:15:48 that hn 21 an officer who was perfectly willing 20 years ago to speak openly about his undercover role in the bbc documentary true lies

00:15:56 true lies is unable to give evidence in open session

00:15:57 session hn 21 was a married officer who became a local organizer in the socialist workers

00:16:09 local organizer in the socialist workers party he admits to a sexual relationship with a woman who he met in a marxist study class a woman who he disingenuously characterizes as a political as if to distance himself from the inevitable accusation that he was sleeping with a political target

00:16:21 sleeping with a political target what is the relevance of the woman being apolitical does hn 21 believe that the woman being apolitical somehow renders his violation of her more palatable

00:16:32 more palatable hn 21 also observes the following from the swp side it was mostly shouting from the far right thing it was mostly physical violence

00:16:48 physical violence yet we will learn during the tranche one phase three evidential hearings that there was apparently a high-level policy decision not to use sds to infiltrate the far right

00:17:02 right now given hn 21's cogent observation why did sds target the left and not the right

00:17:05 right we trust this will be explored in more depth during the live evidence hn 41 another of the of the five officers was an sds officer in the 1970s and 1980s

00:17:16 and 1980s he is of great importance to what happened at south hall on the 23rd of

00:17:28 happened at south hall on the 23rd of april 1979 when blair peach was killed by a police officer and tariq ali and many others were severely beaten by police officers hn 41 says that he was warned by senior special branch officers not to go to southpaw with his target group

00:17:40 southpaw with his target group because the uniform police were going to clamp down on the demonstrations and management considered the dangers were more than normal two important points arise firstly

00:17:51 two important points arise firstly in the transcript of hn 41's evidence in closed session all the names of the target groups that he infiltrated have been redacted why

00:17:58 why why are the names of groups which were infiltrated by him some 43 years ago so sensitive that they cannot be publicly revealed even now secondly

00:18:13 secondly and this is particularly important this is the first time we've had a police witness acknowledge openly the true nature of public order pre-planning by the uniformed a8 branch the special operational unit that had been set up

00:18:24 operational unit that had been set up after the vietnam solidarity campaign demonstration against the vietnam war in march 1968. given hn41's evidence and given what we

00:18:39 given hn41's evidence and given what we now know about the violence meted out by the uniformed police on the 23rd of april 1979 against anti-fascists demonstrating against the national front marching through southall can there really be any doubt that the uniformed police particularly the notorious for

00:18:54 police particularly the notorious for special patrol group a mobile unit under the direct control of the metropolitan police commissioner sir david mcnee were under secret orders to use violence against anti-fascist demonstrators far from sds

00:19:11 far from sds providing intelligence to a8 to allow the latter to plan and steward a peaceful demonstration the effect of the sds intelligence reports was merely to heighten the view within the police as a whole

00:19:25 within the police as a whole that all anti-fascist demonstrators were subversives and fair game for police trenches

00:19:26 trenches this explains hn 41's plaintiff comment that a8 weren't perhaps as receptive to some of our ideas as we thought they might have been

00:19:37 been while hn 41 rightly castigates a8 for their disastrous mistake to shut down a part of southall he still to this day

00:19:49 part of southall he still to this day fails to understand the mentality of the senior police hierarchy who saw left-wing protesters as subversives as the enemy within indeed as hn41 himself says

00:20:00 indeed as hn41 himself says the security service saw left-wing protesters as potential fifth columnists echoing the language of the second world war

00:20:12 war this is we submit the proper context in which the killing of blair peach the severe beating of tariq ali and many others by police officers and the subsequent institutional cover-up by the police must be considered

00:20:23 police must be considered it is no surprise the special branch report into the killing of blair peach has mysteriously gone missing despite special branch having its own archives it has either been buried or destroyed

00:20:34 it has either been buried or destroyed there are questions that we would have wanted to ask hn41 on behalf of tariqah given the 11-page redacted transcript of his evidence in closed session that has been disclosed

00:20:46 been disclosed this leaves a lingering sense of injustice about an opportunity wasted and represents the inevitable cost of having closed hearings from which the non-state corps participants and their lawyers are excluded

00:20:59 lawyers are excluded now before we leave the topic of the closed hearings we want to add one other point

00:21:06 point that was highlighted by another officer hn 109

00:21:11 hn 109 who was undercover in the 1970s and a manager in the 1980s he says that the metropolitan police commissioner visited the sds safe house annually as did other senior officers additionally he mentions sds receiving

00:21:30 additionally he mentions sds receiving congrat congratulations on more than one occasion from 10 downing street for its supposed success in combating public disorder

00:21:31 disorder commenting that he was stunned that somebody at that level could have an awareness of this secret unit as we said in our first opening statement sir sds was a unit that was thoroughly

00:21:46 sds was a unit that was thoroughly integrated into the security apparatus of the british state and was known to all leading state actors from the prime minister

00:21:54 minister to the cabinet to the home office and down the chain of command within the security service and the metropolitan police service in respect of the supposed success of sds

00:22:04 sds in combatic public disorder and its provision

00:22:06 provision of useful intelligence to a8 all of which happens to have gone missing we say nothing could be further from the truth

00:22:13 truth unless success is being measured by the degree of chaos caused by the police on the streets of london starting with the october 1968 vsc demonstration against the vietnam war

00:22:28 demonstration against the vietnam war this was a peaceful demonstration not because of any intelligence from sds but because it was well stewarded by the vietnam solidarity campaign the small breakaway

00:22:42 campaign the small breakaway demonstration was entirely foreseeable from routine intelligence and was effectively policed by uniformed officers using a thick static cordon undercover policing did not make a blind bit of difference to the absence of any serious violence on the day

00:22:55 serious violence on the day the special operations squad as sds was then called should have been shut down after this demonstration but it wasn't many of the large demonstrations of the 1970s

00:23:10 1970s the police invariably failed to keep the peace notwithstanding sds intelligence we suspect this was because the left-wing and anarchist groups being spied on and infiltrated by the undercover officers posed little real public order threat

00:23:21 posed little real public order threat sds should have been focused but were not on the far right who were the real public order threat furthermore there is abundant evidence

00:23:32 furthermore there is abundant evidence in the public domain that the uniformed police were at times looking for confrontation and not just the uniformed officers but those both senior too in june 1974 whilst the police were

00:23:44 in june 1974 whilst the police were protecting a national front meeting in red lion square kevin gately an anti-fascist student was killed in june 1977

00:23:56 in june 1977 the police views violence against tritic striking runway workers and their supporters at a mass picket in august 1977 the home secretary and the metropolitan police commissioner allowed the national front to march through lewisham a multi-racial

00:24:09 through lewisham a multi-racial community with their racist banners and slogans when confronted by an anti-fascist counter-protest the police brought out riot shields for the first

00:24:21 brought out riot shields for the first time on the british mainland and baton charges and mounted police were used against the crowd the battle of lewisham as it came to be called ended in chaos and we've already highlighted the police killing of blair peach and the police attack on many

00:24:40 peach and the police attack on many other anti-fascists in southpaw in april 1979 who were peacefully demonstrating against another provocative national front march through a multi-racial community

00:24:46 community our red lion square grundwick lewisham and southall supposed to be police successes

00:24:53 successes if so perhaps this gives the measure of what the police were trying to achieve at the time i turn now to

00:25:01 to the evidence that you're about to hear in the next few days live evidence to be given by former sds managers

00:25:10 managers or administrators namely barry moss david smith roy creamer derek bryce jeffrey croft angus mcintosh and trevor butler other non-state co-participants

00:25:31 i think it appears to have gone slightly wrong with the transmission let's pause while it's put right yes i think somebody's not muted

00:25:45 try again and if we get the same interruption then by all means pause thank you

00:25:47 thank you um i i just identified the the seven witnesses who are going to be giving evidence in in in the hearings to follow the opening statements other non-state co-participants have

00:25:58 other non-state co-participants have already highlighted the contradiction between senior officers on the one hand claiming that they robustly managed rank-and-file undercover officers and on the other hand professing ignorance

00:26:11 the other hand professing ignorance about abhorrent practices that occurred on their watch we trust that this will be fully explored during the evidential hearings and that the senior officers will be held to account for their managerial failings

00:26:24 failings on a separate note we are pleased that the inquiry has decided to call former detective inspector roy creamer an sds officer who was described by stuart christie perhaps britain's best

00:26:40 stuart christie perhaps britain's best known anarchist who sadly passed away in 2020 as the yard's dialectician of descent

00:26:41 descent detective inspector creamer was one of the first in the queue at collett's bookshop in charing cross road to buy a copy of stuart christie and albert melissa's seminal book the

00:26:59 albert melissa's seminal book the floodgates of anarchy when it was first published in 1970 and was in stuart christie's words the acknowledged special branch expert on anarchists and anarchism who was called in to brief everyone from the home secretary and the police commissioner downwards

00:27:10 police commissioner downwards detective inspector creamer said stuart christie did not dislike anarchists but was curious as to what made them tick he was the epitome of what we might call

00:27:22 was the epitome of what we might call the direct approach as opposed to the oblique approach developed by chief detective chief inspector conrad dixon and the special demonstration squad detective inspector creamer tried to establish friendly and sympathetic

00:27:37 establish friendly and sympathetic relationships with people targeted by special branch and to this end would regularly pop in unannounced to an antique shop in camden high street to play chess with the old hungarian anarchist john retti

00:27:50 anarchist john retti detective inspector creamer would visit stewart christie and over a pint chat about forthcoming events or visits effectively marking his card with a gentle warning as to the fact that special branch had him under surveillance

00:28:03 surveillance we suggest that the direct approach as exemplified by detective inspector creamer was a proportionate approach to the gathering of intelligence by contrast the oblique approach to sweep wide using detective chief

00:28:20 sweep wide using detective chief inspector dixon's parlance was replete with obvious dangers in any event the gathering of intelligence for public order purposes

00:28:31 order purposes could largely be done from open source intelligence monitoring the left-wing and anarchist press attending public meetings and speaking to people i return now um sir to the vex topic of disclosure and redactions that has

00:28:42 disclosure and redactions that has plagued the inquiry from the outset in june um 2021 you will recall um we took the lead and made detailed

00:28:53 um we took the lead and made detailed submissions on what we submitted was the unfairness of the inquiries protocol dated the 22nd of july 2020 for challenging the inquiry's redactions we addressed the open grounds for restriction and asked you to reconsider several hundred reductions

00:29:07 hundred reductions in the sds annual reports from 1969 to 1984.

00:29:09 1984. we highlighted the very real and chilling effect of to continue to keep secret the names of so many groups who were spied on and infiltrated by the sds some 40 or more years ago we called for

00:29:24 some 40 or more years ago we called for greater openness and transparency given the machinations of the secret state and we met with some but sadly only minimal success you unredacted the names of about 10 groups that were spied on

00:29:35 of about 10 groups that were spied on and infiltrated by the sds but but not the full list that we requested

00:29:45 the full list that we requested we asked with respect that at least once a year for the duration of this inquiry there is a further fresh review of all sds annual report redactions and that before the inquiry eventually comes to an end there is a final review most restrictions have clearly been made to protect the anonymity of former

00:29:59 to protect the anonymity of former undercover officers it may well be that some or all these restrictions may no longer be applicable or necessary in the future

00:30:05 future it is hoped that before the inquiry papers go into the national archives the names of all groups spied on and infiltrated by sds can be disclosed to the general public and we asked for a

00:30:21 the general public and we asked for a similar approach to be taken in respect of the special branch annual reports from 1970 to 1983 and any further reports in future tranches which have been disclosed during this hearing bundle finally

00:30:33 finally we still await the security service annual

00:30:36 annual threat assessments it's the point we keep on raising um we submit their plainly relevant the inquiries terms of reference

00:30:42 reference i turn now to the relationship between sds and mi5

00:30:51 and mi5 this is a key issue that continues to develop as we learn uh more and more from the evidence uh about the relationship

00:31:02 about the relationship um several special branch detectives who were involved in what was called the special operations squad in 1968 expected the squad to be wound up after the october 1968 vietnam solidarity campaign demonstration the job having been done so to speak but

00:31:17 the job having been done so to speak but the senior metropolitan police hierarchy and more importantly mi5 wanted the squad squad to become permanent the police with a brief to keep the peace could only justify the

00:31:32 keep the peace could only justify the continued existence of the squad on one ground namely success in the field of public order intelligence however mi5 immediately recognized the value of this squad as a long-term

00:31:43 value of this squad as a long-term intelligence gathering operation against all those it deemed subversive given mi5's wide interpretation of the term subversive it could literally apply

00:31:59 could literally apply to hundreds of thousands if not millions of british citizens all of whom would then become subject to mi5 vetting procedures in 1968

00:32:04 in 1968 with the rise of what has come to be called the new left the operations of mi5 and special branch which targeted the trade unions and the communi communist party of great britain primarily appeared somewhat outdated

00:32:17 primarily appeared somewhat outdated there was a realization that the secret state had not paid sufficient attention to these new groups mi5 were overjoyed when detective chief

00:32:29 mi5 were overjoyed when detective chief inspector dixon came up with the idea of a squad of special branch officers spying on and infiltrating these groups they could hardly contain their enthusiasm for this quad continuing

00:32:43 enthusiasm for this quad continuing so long as the product of the undercover officers was provided to them as a matter of routine consequently for mi5 sds served only one purpose to gather intelligence on the new left and anarchists they had no interest in

00:32:55 anarchists they had no interest in public order except insofar as it was a fig leaf to cover up the obvious role of sds as intelligence gatherers for mi5

00:33:07 sds as intelligence gatherers for mi5 it is hardly surprising therefore that the purse strings were firmly in the hands of the home office and the treasury it is significant that sds were not funded within the mps uh metropolitan police budget

00:33:22 metropolitan police budget it should be noted that sir james waddle who received the sds annual reports was cabinet secretary responsible for liaison with mi5 in our view mi5 were the organ grinders and sds were the monkeys only the monkeys did not know to whose tune they were really

00:33:33 know to whose tune they were really dancing even jeffrey croft who became chief superintendent of f squad in about 1981 with responsibility for sds says

00:33:48 1981 with responsibility for sds says the branch were the legs of the security service sds was only a development of that

00:33:53 that trevor butler says that there were frequent meetings between mi5 and special branch senior management interestingly and i'm sure you have noted this already sir many of the sds managers deny any involvement

00:34:05 involvement in tasking and say this came from higher up it did it came from mi5 through to the special branch commander of operations or chief superintendent and was then filtered down

00:34:16 and was then filtered down the detective chief inspectors and detective inspectors in the office would then look at their current deployments and move undercover undercover officers around or deploy new undercover officers

00:34:31 around or deploy new undercover officers that is why it was useful for undercover officers to float around a little and sweep wide as this allowed them to be more effectively moved if need be

00:34:42 more effectively moved if need be as mi5 were interested in individuals and not groups their requests of sds were specific jeffrey croft says that sds gave mi5 a huge base of information for their vetting activity

00:34:59 vetting activity it's interesting that special branch had their own security concerns about mi5 knowing the names of fds officers because they were worried understandably perhaps that mi5 informers in the same groups could discover their identities and compromise them

00:35:10 them we asked the inquiry once again to revisit its decision only to consider mi5 in respect of its interaction with sds as revealed by the documents allowing mi5 largely to escape scrutiny

00:35:28 allowing mi5 largely to escape scrutiny will inevitably result sir in at best a partial picture of secret political policing in britain i turned next to the development of sds in the 1970s it was in 72 1972 the year that

00:35:43 it was in 72 1972 the year that conrad dixon became chief superintendent of c-squad that the metropolitan police changed the name of the special operations squad to the special demonstration squad to give further cover to the idea that the squad

00:35:55 further cover to the idea that the squad was about demonstrations in public order once again this was plausible deniability we submit to cover up what the sds really was an intelligence gathering operation of those deemed subversive

00:36:08 subversive we have no c-squad weekly reports to ah throughout this whole period dealing with public order threats we will see if they are forthcoming in for future years david smith one of the witnesses you're going to hear from says that he does not

00:36:33 going to hear from says that he does not recall a8 ever saying thank you and that they largely ignored any intelligence supply we suggest this is entirely accurate and unsurprising in around 1979 david smith wrote a 12-page essay on policing crowd control and public disorder this you may agree is an interesting document in his opinion the risk of violence on demonstrations is greatest

00:36:48 violence on demonstrations is greatest some five to seven days after an emotive initiating event he says that only rarely do the extremists formulate their plans in total secrecy and normally albeit grudgingly they will supply to police the broad outline of their

00:36:59 police the broad outline of their intentions he suggests that large demonstration demonstrations tended to be more moderate and peaceful as there was a dilution of more militant elements while small protests could be

00:37:12 elements while small protests could be handled by the uniform branch relatively easily the problem often arose with militant protests he says of about 2 000 demonstrators turning violent what use

00:37:24 demonstrators turning violent what use we say then was sds in combating public disorder

00:37:28 disorder ultimately however even david smith despite that analysis cannot detach him from from the mantra that undercover officers profoundly influenced the metropolitan police's ability to maintain public order we profoundly disagree it will hardly

00:37:42 we profoundly disagree it will hardly surprise you that we say all evidence points to the contrary lastly in relation to public order we suggest that when the authorities allow a far-right group like the

00:37:55 allow a far-right group like the national front which it with its overtly racist and fascist membership to march through an urban area with a large ethnic minority community as the

00:38:06 large ethnic minority community as the police did in lewisham in 1977 in south pole in 1979 and when the police then protect the fascists and deploy all their resources against the anti-fascist counter-demonstrators

00:38:19 counter-demonstrators it is fairly obvious that there will be trouble you don't need the sds to tell you that

00:38:21 you that according to angus mcintosh who was posted to sds between 1976 and 1979

00:38:31 1979 although sds were ready to infiltrate extreme right-wing groups if needed there was a high-level policy decision during his time in sds not to allow or order such infiltration we know that e-squad was meant to

00:38:44 we know that e-squad was meant to monitor such groups but the far right was never subject um to anything resembling the degree of intrusive surveillance and infiltration to which the left and anarchist groups were subject despite the fact that

00:38:58 were subject despite the fact that racists and fascists were well known to all including the police for their violence and were in reality the real public order threat this further suggests we submit that the primary focus of sds was gathering

00:39:10 primary focus of sds was gathering intelligence on groups and individuals individuals of a left ring or anaquest anarchist persuasion as opposed to

00:39:21 anarchist persuasion as opposed to preventing public disorder the political persuasions and this is important of many senior police officers many of an ex-service background were very much on the right of the political spectrum as is clear from their witness statements for example the comments of jeffrey

00:39:36 for example the comments of jeffrey kraft about mob rule lefties um scruffy hairy so-and-so's they speak for themselves this is classic reds under the bed stuff with a dose of mccarthyism thrown in for good measure

00:39:47 good measure the final justification for the sds negative reporting simply put

00:39:53 put it means that if fds discovers that a group poses no threat to public order this is

00:40:04 threat to public order this is nevertheless uh useful and of benefit to the police but surely this begs the obvious question as to why the group needed to be infiltrated in the first place we say this is scraping the barrel of disingenuous exposed factor justification

00:40:15 justification um

00:40:18 um turning then finally sir to the future of the inquiry but we understand that the trans-jew hearings covering the period from 1983 to 1992 are unlikely to commence before the spring of 2024 and

00:40:34 commence before the spring of 2024 and that subsequent hearings covering spying in the 1990s and 2000s will take place in the months and years thereafter we ask rhetorically and i'm sure you understand why how many more undercover officers uh non-state co-participants and other

00:40:49 non-state co-participants and other relevant witnesses will have passed away or have become unavailable to participate in the inquiry for reasons

00:41:00 participate in the inquiry for reasons of ill health by then is anyone's guess we appreciate of course that the material being processed by the inquiries voluminous and that the state core participants are insisting that every word on every page is potentially subject to restriction and reduction these things take time we get it

00:41:16 get it however the inquiry at present has no end in sight and this is obviously a matter of great concern and disappointment to the non-state core participants but i i i on a more positive note and i think it is important to say this we welcome the

00:41:27 important to say this we welcome the indication that you've given in the last few days

00:41:28 few days um that the the legal framework for the conduct of undercover police operations must be determined and cannot be assured to use your words

00:41:40 to use your words finally sir i know i'm more or less at the end of my time if i could be forgiven just to make say a few words on behalf of

00:41:48 behalf of three other non-state co-participants who i represent uh two of whom were targeted in the 1970s and i'll be very brief namely ken livingston the friends of freedom press and dwayne brooks

00:42:01 brooks you know sir that it's clear from the material

00:42:06 material disclosed thus far that ken livingston um

00:42:07 um in relation to ken livingston that the secret state began spying on him in the 1970s

00:42:17 1970s nevertheless his name only features and a handful of intelligence reports disclosed thus far and we say that's odd for for two reasons

00:42:22 reasons primarily firstly mr livingston as you know was active on multiple fronts during the 1970s notably on the left of the labor party but also on ireland and on anti-racism

00:42:33 on ireland and on anti-racism secondly after being elected leader of the greater london council in may 1981 which is within our period of time he was denounced by the then prime

00:42:45 he was denounced by the then prime minister margaret thatcher is wanting to impose upon the nation of tyranny which the peoples of eastern europe yearned to cast aside and by the right-wing press as reg ken and a left-wing extremist and

00:42:59 as reg ken and a left-wing extremist and so we say it's inconceivable that he did not become a prime target of the secret state at that stage at least so why is there such a positive positive material on him we know that some of the campaigns he supported like the troops out movement were infiltrated

00:43:13 out movement were infiltrated does the tiny number of sds reports on him suggest that he wasn't being spied on by the sts was it mi5 who was spying on him what role did sds play what was the nature of the spine

00:43:22 spine surely we asked one or more of the managers who you're going to hear from in the next few days

00:43:33 in the next few days may be able to give cogent evidence and shed some light on these important questions

00:43:36 questions freedom press including the freedom collective was also an sds target in the 1970s the freedom collective is mentioned as a target in the for the first time in the

00:43:48 the for the first time in the 1974 sds annual report and roger pearce who

00:43:49 who you know you will know this of course went on to become head of sds and later head of special branch he was spying on the freedom collective between 1978 and 1984 using the cover name of roger

00:44:04 1984 using the cover name of roger thorley and writing articles for its paper

00:44:13 paper again we ask why is there such a pausing of material on freedom press and the freedom collective where are roger pearce's sds reports and finally um dwayne brooks and i mention him for one reason only because obviously he features in much later tranches barry moss

00:44:25 barry moss an sds manager in the 1980s who later became a commander in special branch the 1990s

00:44:36 1990s is your first police witness this friday he gave evidence to mark ellison's 2014 review into corruption and undercover policing in the stephen lawrence case he doesn't address this in the witness statement that the inquiry has thus far take and all we are urging the inquiry

00:44:48 take and all we are urging the inquiry to do we're not suggesting that he can be asked any questions about this because his statement doesn't cover it we understand that but we do urge the inquiry to take a further witness statement from him as soon as possible given his age

00:45:04 given his age um a statement that covers his knowledge about undercover policing on mr brooks and the lawrence family my apologies sir for going slightly over those are

00:45:15 those are my submissions for tranche one phase three

00:45:16 three thank you very much um i don't propose to enter into a public debate with you about

00:45:22 about your uh statement and propositions but can i offer some reassurance about roger percy's reports they are going to be dealt with in trash too

00:45:35 too they have been collated they will be disclosed

00:45:36 disclosed i'm grateful thank you

00:45:42 thank you thank you i resume uh in approximately 10 minutes time

00:54:33 [Music]

00:54:39 mr morris thank you um i speak as a core participant in this inquiry and one who was targeted by

00:54:50 inquiry and one who was targeted by police spies from the mid-1970s onwards both personally and as a member of targeted political and campaigning groups

00:54:56 groups i have already contributed to the inquiry a witness statement and two detailed opening statements for previous hearings

00:55:04 hearings i have slightly amended and expanded on my written statement submitted in april

00:55:11 april on monday you as the chair of the inquiry indicated you had welcomed tariq ali when he gave evidence in 2020

00:55:23 ali when he gave evidence in 2020 in helpfully explaining trotskyist ideas to you

00:55:27 to you in the light of police misconceptions about anarchists various disclo in various disclosed documents including annual reports i will try to explain

00:55:41 i will try to explain the predominant motivations aims and activities of anarchists and the anarchist movement as i see it standing up for the public interest against the rich and powerful as already outlined in my previous

00:55:54 as already outlined in my previous statements i have been involved since 1974

00:56:00 1974 in a range of groups and campaigns trying to encourage the public to support one another and empower themselves where they live and work to challenge injustice oppression and damage to the environment

00:56:12 oppression and damage to the environment and to make the world a better place for everyone

00:56:15 everyone the various groups i've been involved in over the decades have been open and collectively run and engaged in the kind of public

00:56:27 and engaged in the kind of public activities which the public are invited to join in or to replicate for themselves and which are essential if humanity is to progress and survive in the future such groups as we all should

00:56:38 such groups as we all should question and challenge those institutions which wield power over people's lives and control the world's resources and decision making these include governments transnational

00:56:54 these include governments transnational corporations military organizations and financial institutions such powerful institutions are generally tightly controlled by a small

00:57:09 tightly controlled by a small self-serving elite continually obsessed with power and profit and are ruthless and unaccountable in fact as i outland in more detail in my april 2021 statement they are

00:57:22 my april 2021 statement they are subversive of society and people's real needs

00:57:26 needs they are the real subversives that need to be investigated indeed they are also the inevitable

00:57:37 indeed they are also the inevitable cause of most of what the sds would define as quote public disorder in response to injustice unsurprisingly such institutions have made a shocking mess of the world for centuries

00:57:47 centuries causing mass hardship and poverty disempowerment discrimination and oppression

00:57:59 oppression exploitation of workers and resources horrific wars and large-scale environmental destruction they have brought humanity to the brink of nuclear annihilation

00:58:18 of nuclear annihilation and have been systematically exploiting and destroying the natural environment upon which humanity human society depends for our survival as a result our species now faces a catastrophic and possibly terminal future

00:58:33 many of the groups i have been involved with

00:58:33 with believe

00:58:34 believe that the evidence of history demonstrates that such aforementioned institutions can't be successfully reformed

00:58:45 reformed and turned into benevolent useful public bodies

00:58:47 bodies however history also demonstrates that grassroots movements for change if large enough and determined enough can shift the balance of power and win

00:59:02 can shift the balance of power and win concessions and victories for the public along the way the groups i have been involved in have tried their best to support efforts efforts to build single issue and other campaigns and

00:59:17 single issue and other campaigns and movements to improve things in the here and now

00:59:19 and now some of those groups logically also call for the hierarchical and authoritarian institutions which are causing the shocking problems humanity

00:59:33 causing the shocking problems humanity unfortunately has to face to be replaced in the long term by a genuinely democratic way of running society one in which people all over the world collectively manage their own neighborhoods

00:59:44 neighborhoods workplaces and lives and ensure that all the resources are shared fairly and all decision making is for the public good

00:59:58 for the public good this is libertarian socialism or anarchism

01:00:00 anarchism on monday

01:00:01 on monday you requested suggestions for key relevant reading materials hence i recommend the following books on anarchism by noam chomsky

01:00:16 by noam chomsky anarchism a very short introduction by colin ward and demanding the impossible a history of anarchism by peter marshall

01:00:32 if you enjoy science fiction i also recommend the dispossessed by ursula le guin

01:00:34 guin i am proud of the many groups and campaigns i have been involved in and believe that such efforts should be supported not undermined similar to points made by other

01:00:48 similar to points made by other non-state core participants in this week's opening statements as an active anarchist in the tranche one period i do not recognize the ignorance

01:00:56 ignorance derogatory and misleading

01:01:08 derogatory and misleading sds and special branch annual reports official characterizations about the ideals and activities of anarchists during that period the evidence of undercover officer graham coates as the only undercover officer spying on

01:01:25 as the only undercover officer spying on anarchists we have relevant evidence for from at this stage as far as i am aware amply demonstrates the reality for two years or more he personally targeted me

01:01:37 targeted me and the groups i was involved with especially the anarchy magazine collective

01:01:42 and concluded quote

01:01:46 quote the anarchists i reported on posed a minimal challenge to public order i do not think either the international socialists or the anarchist movement was subversive in terms of their actions

01:02:05 subversive in terms of their actions i do not believe any info i provided was particularly significant i do not think it would have made any difference to public order if i had not worked for the sds

01:02:17 anarchist groups just like pretty much all of the left-wing and campaign groups targeted

01:02:21 targeted were full of well-meaning and idealistic people with a sense of justice engaged in spreading progressive ideas for a better society they were

01:02:33 they were helping run newspapers bookshops and other cooperative projects taking part in open or public meetings and social and cultural events

01:02:45 and social and cultural events encouraging people to think and speak up for themselves and support each other and their needs where they live and work and encouraging people to empower themselves to be in control of their

01:03:00 themselves to be in control of their lives rather than just be loyal subjects passive consumers and forced to obey those with power over them

01:03:10 them for example landlords employers politicians and police they were participating in a range of essential protests on the issues of the time

01:03:23 time and constructively supporting movements against injustice and inequality and for positive change yet

01:03:31 yet the biased and self-serving official annual reports extracts of which were quoted so eruditely by the council to the inquiry in his opening statement on monday

01:03:44 in his opening statement on monday deliberately failed to acknowledge and outline these basic facts if they had done they would have had to have had admitted that their infiltration operations were indeed

01:03:55 indeed totally unacceptable

01:04:06 sds targeting in the 1970s and further important evidence awaited in the tranche one period the main groups i was involved in included the london workers group which supported workers challenging exploitation at work

01:04:25 exploitation at work the union of postal workers and rank and file post office worker magazine which were fellow postal workers to myself uh supporting each other anarchy magazine spreading anti-authoritarian ideas and news

01:04:42 anti-authoritarian ideas and news and the person's unknown support group a campaign in defensive and activists arrested

01:04:44 arrested found at trial to be not guilty and finally the torness alliance opposition to the development of nuclear energy

01:04:57 energy i've already referred to anarchy magazine

01:05:01 magazine the london workers group was infiltrated by

01:05:07 undercover officer tony williams who was a spy from 1978 to 1982 his statement has so far been withheld from me as for some reason he has been allocated to tranche too

01:05:23 allocated to tranche too it is therefore impossible to comment or ask questions of his managers about the extent of this unlawful and disgusting infiltration of what was an open group

01:05:36 infiltration of what was an open group and about the other groups he targeted however we know from two of the disclosed documents that he became firstly the treasurer of the london workers group and then the secretary giving him full access to personal

01:05:54 giving him full access to personal information on the group's supporters no doubt to be passed on to mi5 for blacklisting purposes interestingly another document from mi5

01:06:07 interestingly another document from mi5 dated 30th of july 1982 states that when tony williams was due to be withdrawn from the sds in 1982 the mi5 f6 manager had met with hn 68 from the sds

01:06:18 from the sds who considered it was quote no great loss

01:06:22 loss as tony williams work had not been particularly productive

01:06:29 i have given the inquiry a photo i took of tony williams in 1980. regarding the torness alliance this was a uk-wide campaign to oppose the

01:06:41 a uk-wide campaign to oppose the building of a new nuclear power station in scotland the main objections were firstly the threat of catastrophic nuclear accidents as had almost happened

01:06:58 as had almost happened in 1979 at three mile island in the u.s and in 1986 actually happened at chernobyl in ukraine resulting subsequently in an estimated nine to sixteen thousand deaths from air pollution throughout europe

01:07:12 second concern was the lack of safe disposal of nuclear waste which would be dangerously radioactive for thousands of years

01:07:21 years ten thousand people protested at tornes in 1979

01:07:22 in 1979 and there were some follow-up protests in the year afterwards i was involved in this campaign london greenpeace were heavily involved in this movement and i later got

01:07:33 in this movement and i later got involved with that group around 1982. london greenpeace was infiltrated by the sds for many years as we will come to entrance too

01:07:45 entrance too according to their witness statements for t1p3

01:07:51 for t1p3 a number of sds uh undercover officers were infiltrating the anti-nuclear movement and at least four managers

01:07:58 managers visited the tornest site however we are unfortunately expecting most of the evidence and documentation relevant to this movement and london

01:08:10 relevant to this movement and london greenpeace to not be disclosed until tranche 2.

01:08:19 the 1979 special branch annual report is disclosed in full and contains a huge wealth of evidence about or relevant to the sds and its spying operation

01:08:30 the sds and its spying operation it includes three explicit references to myself

01:08:31 myself in the monthly sections and many other references to groups and events i was involved with with a month-by-month chronology and

01:08:43 with a month-by-month chronology and very helpful index cross-referencing the names

01:08:51 names of over 200 targeted groups and over a hundred targeted individuals in that year

01:08:52 year alone

01:08:56 alone the other s special branch added reports disclosed

01:08:57 disclosed by the inquiry have been massively cut they are thin and vague in comparison

01:09:08 the full reports for for all the relevant years including for the forthcoming tranches should be disclosed as soon as possible

01:09:19 should be disclosed as soon as possible this will help identify many of the list of a thousand groups of the thousand groups targeted by the sds for which we have been waiting for years due to the many delays during the

01:09:30 due to the many delays during the inquiry at the further delays expected all the witness statements already taken from uh undercover officers should be disclosed as soon as possible this is

01:09:42 disclosed as soon as possible this is essential so that core participants can begin to prepare their responses including seeking out others from groups and events affected by the spying operation

01:09:53 operation over the life of the sds and later the npiou

01:09:56 npiou rather than having to wait for years until the last minute when it is

01:10:09 until the last minute when it is generally too late to trace victims and prepare evidence effectively a key question for managers why did the police never consider the welfare as well as the human and legal rights of those members of the public they targeted

01:10:18 targeted the victims surely they had a duty of care whilst invading and influencing people's lives surely any normal human being would do so anyway duty of care or not

01:10:32 so anyway duty of care or not after seven years of the inquiry many thousands of people in groups targeted whether those groups have already been

01:10:45 whether those groups have already been revealed or so far are still concealed remain in the dark about who spied on them

01:10:48 them what information was collected and what was done with it they are understandably angry as well as being confused and suspicious about which individuals from their past may have been police spies

01:11:02 have been police spies and events from their life which may have been secretly invaded and manipulated by state agents cynically masquerading as their friends and colleagues

01:11:15 colleagues this delay is unacceptable and we need the full truth in contrast the inquiry at the behest of the police is strongly applying privacy and human rights concerns

01:11:29 rights concerns to protect the identity and welfare of undercover officers this sudden police conversion to such rights not previously of any concern of their secret units during their

01:11:40 their secret units during their four or five decades of operations is surely staggering hypocrisy it would be seen as ironic if it wasn't so serious

01:11:51 serious many might think that those who secretly invaded and abused people's lives should have vacated their own privacy riots furthermore in most core participants

01:12:03 furthermore in most core participants opinion the current privacy strategy of the police and inquiry is the key cause of the massive problems costs and delays in the inquiry

01:12:21 the public would expect that such private privacy protection criteria applied to the undercover officers be applied a hundred times more strongly when evaluating the unlawfulness of the sds and the rights of those

01:12:35 of the sds and the rights of those victims who are seeking a better society who were thereby secretly targeted lied to

01:12:48 lied to abused manipulated and reported on to the police and secret services conclusion i have read and support the impressive detailed opening statements made on behalf of the category h core participants and on behalf of the

01:13:04 participants and on behalf of the co-operative cooperating group of core participants and indeed those for the other non-states core participants these statements clearly demonstrate beyond doubts

01:13:15 beyond doubts that the entire secret sds operation was unacceptable and unlawful as well as being worthless it demonstrates that the police were institutionally anti-democratic

01:13:29 institutionally anti-democratic as well as being institutionally sexist racist and anti-working class the infiltration of left-wing and

01:13:40 the infiltration of left-wing and progressive groups and campaigns and the invasion of their members lives should never have been allowed to happen managers and those higher up the chain all the way to police chiefs and government ministers

01:13:54 government ministers must apologize and be held responsible and accountable thank you very much thank you very much may i ask just one question of you um you have um taken up uh the implied invitation to uh suggest

01:14:11 uh the implied invitation to uh suggest a reading list to me if i have time for any one of your factual books which should it be well um

01:14:14 well um i would actually recommend uh the demanding the impossible uh by peter marshall however it's a weighty tone

01:14:30 marshall however it's a weighty tone so you may need to select which chapters that you would prefer to to engage with but that's the one you recommend i don't mind reading weighty tones i'm quite happy with that but um three on the same topic maybe too much okay thank you very much thank you very much we will adjourn now for um

01:14:45 we will adjourn now for um about a quarter of an hour perhaps a little longer um i don't know the precise timings thank you

01:29:36 okay

01:29:53 what's happening morning sir thank you

01:30:01 are we ready to start sir please do i'm forgiving i didn't uh think i needed formally to invite you to make your opening statement but please do

01:30:09 do so this opening statement is made on behalf of all the cooperating non-police non-state corps participants which i will refer to as the non-state cooperating group

01:30:20 cooperating group it supplements the statements that have been made directly on behalf of individuals and groups by their instructed lawyers and the first and second opening statements made by the non-state cooperating group at the start

01:30:31 non-state cooperating group at the start of the evidence in tranche 1 phase 1 and tranche 1 phase two the non-state cooperating group once again expressed their concern in relation to the significant delay to the progress of this public inquiry there

01:30:45 progress of this public inquiry there has been a gap of 12 months since the t1 p2 hearings and the non-state cooperating group understand that tranche 2 will not take place before 2024.

01:30:54 2024. the inquiry has still not set out a clear timetable for future hearings the undercover police officers are of advancing age and this is particularly

01:31:05 advancing age and this is particularly so in relation to the managers who are to be heard in tranche 1 phase 3 some of whom will also have evidence to give in later tranches further delay will result in crucial evidence being lost the non-state

01:31:19 evidence being lost the non-state cooperating group deserve clarity on the future progression of this inquiry and so demand that the inquiry publishes a timetable for all future hearings as a matter of urgency

01:31:32 matter of urgency i will now make some comments on the evidence on behalf of the non-state cooperating group as the inquiry moves into t1p3 the period 1968 to 1982

01:31:44 period 1968 to 1982 it will focus on the activities of the managers and administrators from the special demonstration squad in t1p2 the inquiry heard truly shocking evidence about undercover officers operating an unjustifiable

01:32:00 operating an unjustifiable unlawful and profoundly anti-democratic system of surveillance that was fundamentally flawed we've had a glimpse into a system that obviously violate violated fundamental rights and the common law as has been

01:32:12 rights and the common law as has been set out in detail in the category h t1p3 opening statement the managers are now in the spotlight the witness statement disclosed in this

01:32:23 the witness statement disclosed in this inquiry contain a litany of denials and an apparent unwillingness to accept responsibility or admit knowledge on key decision making and events

01:32:34 decision making and events the managers appear reluctant to give a full and honest explanation of why things went so badly wrong within the sds in this t1 era and beyond

01:32:45 sds in this t1 era and beyond why on earth in 2022 would witnesses to this public inquiry not be willing to tell the full and varnished truth the non-state cooperating group asked are the managers seeking to protect their professional reputation or do they

01:33:00 their professional reputation or do they feel a sense of misguided loyalty to the metropolitan police service reinforced by their decades of experience of not breaking rank and

01:33:13 experience of not breaking rank and protecting the institution at all costs if this is the case it is a deeply misplaced sentiment as the witnesses in t1 p3 will no doubt be aware

01:33:25 be aware the last 12 months have seen the public once again demanding answers from the mps

01:33:29 mps following the exposure of appalling acts of racism

01:33:30 of racism misogyny and corruption this institution which has been found to be institutionally racist

01:33:43 be institutionally racist institutionally corrupt and marred by a culture of toxic masculinity misogyny and sexual harassment the public and the non-state cooperating group are still demanding and expecting answers

01:33:53 answers the group can see from the t1p2 and p3 disclosure that the sds managers always emphasize their robust management of undercover officers when seeking a

01:34:09 undercover officers when seeking a renewal of funding from the home office if this is correct the managers as former senior police officers appointed to serve the public have a duty to explain in a full and honest manner why it was the deborah practices went on under their watch

01:34:22 went on under their watch these practices echo the behaviour exposed in the mps in the last 12 months why was it that managers presided over an unlawful system of policing that so obviously violated fundamental rights

01:34:40 obviously violated fundamental rights did the managers conceal these practices from their political masters or was it as the non-state cooperating group suspect that the cover-up went on at the highest political level

01:34:52 highest political level it is therefore central to the inquiry's remit to obtain an understanding of the political knowledge of the sds and the extent to which direction and targeting came from outside the sds there is a wealth of evidence

01:35:05 there is a wealth of evidence demonstrating that senior home office officials knew about the sds after all they approved the funding and often acted as the communications link between the security services and the home office

01:35:18 home office however the the yearly decision to allow the sds to continue to operate would clearly not have been theirs alone these were political decisions this inquiry must establish who in the senior political hierarchy was

01:35:36 senior political hierarchy was controlling and directing sds targeting and who beyond the home office civil servants ultimately signed off the funding for the sds and for what purpose what motivated the alliances formed by the sds with its quote customers

01:35:48 the sds with its quote customers and why for example did the funding for the sds increase rapidly during this era at a time when public disorder was on the way

01:35:57 the way the inquiry should not forget the admission by witness said on behalf of the security services that the pressure to investigate so-called subversive

01:36:12 to investigate so-called subversive organizations quote often came from the prime minister and whitehall so i now want to make a few brief comments about terms of reference regulation and the impact of secrecy

01:36:20 secrecy uncovering the true nature of the shadowy political oversight of the sds by the metropolitan police special branch the home office and the security services is crucial

01:36:32 services is crucial the evidence disclosed in tranche one reveals that the home office knew at the time that sts activities for example for the security services were unlawful

01:36:43 the security services were unlawful they also knew that if the sds were exposed it would result in a political scandal and significant embarrassment as a result from the outset the

01:36:57 as a result from the outset the political elite and senior metropolitan police special branch police officers deliberately shrouded the sds in secrecy and did everything they could to insulate it from external oversight

01:37:08 insulate it from external oversight undercover operations were conducted without clear guidance and robust terms of reference and there was no code of conduct or formal training

01:37:23 formal training it was this secrecy that allowed the sds managers in t1 to operate with such apparent complacency and ultimately it was this secrecy that allowed the abhorrent and unlawful

01:37:34 allowed the abhorrent and unlawful practices of the undercover officers to flourish and thrive in the t1 era and beyond

01:37:41 in terms of guidance to the metropolitan police special grants and in particular the sds

01:37:47 the sds between 1969 and 1982 we can see that the only official high-level instructions were to be found in the 1969 responsibilities of special branch and the 1970 home office terms of reference for special branch

01:38:03 reference for special branch however the 1970 terms of reference was known by the home office and the mps to be a woefully inadequate and vague document with a problematic definition

01:38:15 document with a problematic definition of subversion and no clear role assigned to the metropolitan police special branch

01:38:17 branch the 1972 definition of subversion did not contain the reference to unlawful activity that featured in lord denning's 1969 definition

01:38:34 1969 definition and this has been set out in much more detail in the t1p3 opening statement made on behalf of lindsey germain richard chessom and mary the metropolitan police service 1970 terms of reference um never contained

01:38:45 terms of reference um never contained that reference to unlawful and in 1978 robin cook mp commented in parliament on the 1972 amendment stating quote lord harris's definition of subversion does

01:39:00 harris's definition of subversion does not turn on any reference to unlawful it is in no way restricted to unlawful activities it is therefore an invitation to the police forces that police this concept

01:39:11 police forces that police this concept of subversion to stick their nose into any form of political or industrial activity

01:39:16 in the latest t1 p3 disclosure there is a clear paper trail which shows that as early as 1974 concerns were being raised at the highest political levels about

01:39:36 at the highest political levels about the politicization of the police and the illegitimate surveillance activities of the metropolitan police special branch members of parliament actively raised concerns with the home secretary and demanded better public scrutiny of the metropolitan police special branch covert surveillance activities however these mps appeared to know

01:39:47 however these mps appeared to know nothing about the activities of the sds the paper trail then continues the robin cook mp debates of 1977-78

01:40:02 cook mp debates of 1977-78 forced the home office to begin the slow process of revising the terms of reference

01:40:06 reference as part of this process for majesty's chief inspectorate of constabulary raised concerns to the home office that quote the security service sought more information from special branch says than they really needed

01:40:18 says than they really needed the home office also knew that some senior police officers in the nps had been questioning whether there was any lawful justification for their work for the security services

01:40:29 the security services as early as 1974 commander gilbert told the security services that quote the sds did a tremendous amount of work for the

01:40:40 did a tremendous amount of work for the security services and that for the most part the work done um had little or no relevance to special

01:40:57 um had little or no relevance to special branch's proper charter and as far as he was concerned it tied up staff of which he was chronically short anyway in totally unproductive activity now

01:41:00 now so you will recall that some officers in t1p2 such as hm126 paul gray spent significant amounts of his time reporting the intimate personal details of school children

01:41:12 of school children it now appears this information was most likely connected for the security services who in 1975 specifically asked the metropolitan police special branch

01:41:23 the metropolitan police special branch to look out for extensive data on school children teachers and members of governing bodies promoting subversion it seems that commander gilbert's concerns were not heeded by the policing and security establishment

01:41:40 and security establishment the length to which the sds would go to conduct unlawful surveillance work for the security services is typified by their targeting of the workers revolutionary party the wrp was a political party that

01:41:51 the wrp was a political party that sought to bring about radical economic reform

01:41:55 reform it stood candidates in the 1974 general election

01:41:57 election and the inquiry has been provided with that manifesto the wrp was well recognised by the sds as not using violence and not a threat to public order

01:42:08 to public order it was clearly not a subversive organization however it was nevertheless targeted by hn 298 mike scott who attended the wrp education center white meadows

01:42:19 education center white meadows contrary to the wishes of dac gilbert despite the lack of public order threat and lawful activity the sds were

01:42:30 and lawful activity the sds were nonetheless prepared to continue to target the wrp

01:42:41 target the wrp and on behalf of the security services and we can see in 1979 that dci mike ferguson who was then a senior sds officer

01:42:42 officer stated in response to a security services request for coverage of the wrp that quote although the wrp was not

01:42:54 that quote although the wrp was not considered to be a law and order problem nevertheless he was ready to put a source into the wrp if this would legitimately act as a stepping stone for a penetration of an sds target the lack of lawful justification for

01:43:05 the lack of lawful justification for this type of sds work for the security services was well understood by the home office

01:43:16 office who can be seen commenting in 1980 that the 1970 terms of reference did not quote

01:43:22 quote provide ministers or chief officers with a water type basis on which to justify the work of police officers in investigating and recording the activities of the subversives

01:43:33 activities of the subversives however despite knowing that they were presiding over a system of unlawful state surveillance it appears that in 1970 to 1980 on the recommendation of the head of the metropolitan police special branch deputy assistant commissioner

01:43:47 branch deputy assistant commissioner robert p bryan an early draft of the terms of reference michelle on the grounds that quote it might stimulate more questions than it answered

01:43:57 answered the inquiry is presented with clear evidence of senior members of the metropolitan police special branch seeking to cover up and perpetuate the unlawful activities of the branch which was typified by the sds

01:44:17 in terms of external oversight of the sds home office communications to sir brian cuban the then permanent under secretary of state at the home office noted that her majesty's chief inspectorate of

01:44:29 her majesty's chief inspectorate of constabulary proposed that there should be a systematic planned inspection of all headquarters special branch units and selected port units however on further consideration it was thought that some chief officers might resist such an approach

01:44:43 might resist such an approach it now seems that there was never any external oversight of the sds or metropolitan police special branch during this era and beyond and it would appear that this was a decision known about and sanctioned at

01:44:56 decision known about and sanctioned at the highest political level within the home office the inquiry is here presented with clear evidence of home office complicity in covering up and insulating from external scrutiny the unlawful

01:45:07 external scrutiny the unlawful activities of the metropolitan police special branch as typified by the sds the non-state cooperating group asked the inquiry to investigate whether her majesty's chief inspector of

01:45:19 majesty's chief inspector of constabulary ever came to learn about the existence of the sds and if not why not

01:45:28 who else was controlling and influencing the oversight and regulation of the metropolitan police special branch and the sds that the group ask evidence has also emerged that in 1980

01:45:40 evidence has also emerged that in 1980 it was the security services that have a decisive hand in preventing the publication of a new branch terms of reference

01:45:49 reference this gives the inquiry an insight in the extent to which the security services exercised control over the metropolitan police special branch however

01:45:59 however the decisive factor it seems in closing the door on any form of regulatory framework or revised terms of reference appears to have been the election of margaret thatcher in 1979.

01:46:16 margaret thatcher in 1979. mrs thatcher is noted as not sharing quote pre her predecessors disquiet about the work of special branches so i'm now going to say a few words about sds rules and training it was not just the political elite and the metropolitan police special branch

01:46:32 the metropolitan police special branch hierarchy that resisted clear rules and guidance on undercover policing and surveillance whilst the architect of the sds chief inspector conrad dixon authored the first guidance on the sds in his

01:46:43 first guidance on the sds in his penetration of extremist groups dated the 26th of november 1968 this document seemingly remained buried this paper ran almost in parallel with the home office circular 197

01:46:59 the home office circular 197 uh 97 1969 entitled informants who take part in crime one would think that these documents would provide early important guidance to the sds it seems however that they were ignored most importantly these documents

01:47:12 most importantly these documents suggested that deployments should last no longer than 12 months in recognition of the stresses of undercover life unless there were special circumstances

01:47:23 unless there were special circumstances dixon also directed that members should not quote take office in groups chair meetings draft leaflets speak in public or initiate activity however these apparent rules were

01:47:35 however these apparent rules were immediately broken including by dixon himself

01:47:37 himself dixon along with his fellow undercover

01:47:49 dixon along with his fellow undercover officers not only voted in meetings but either dixon or hm 329 also penned an article for red camden the administrator hn 3095 willian ferner who significantly has not been called to give evidence in t1p3

01:47:58 t1p3 characterizes dixon as having a quote very loose reign whilst another manager ruby wilson describes him as being quote very free and easy

01:48:13 very free and easy did this approach become the blueprint for the sds the non-state cooperating group asked even in the early days the deployments lasted significantly longer than dickson himself considered appropriate

01:48:26 himself considered appropriate we can see that hn 68 sean lynch was in the field from 1968 to 1973 and by the mid-1970s hn 200 roger harris was deployed from 1974 to 77

01:48:41 was deployed from 1974 to 77 commenting i was not told how long i would be in the sds i feel that for the first year you find your feet the middle year is most effective and in the third year there is a danger you could become careless or overconfident

01:48:57 overconfident for example when i was nearing the end of my deployment i signed one of my personal checks in my cover name i knew the person serving me at the bank and so it was not a problem but it made me think it was time to stop working undercover

01:49:13 undercover by the mid-1970s the accepted duration became a standardized four years we see hn 304 graham coats uh 76 to 79 we see hn 354 vincent harvey 76 to 79

01:49:24 76 to 79 hn

01:49:26 hn 80 colin clark 77 to um 1982 we see hn 106 barry tompkins 79 to 1983 and we see hn155

01:49:38 and we see hn155 phil cooper um 1979-1984 all of these undercover officers have indicated that they were told or

01:49:49 indicated that they were told or expected their deployment to last around four years in the words of hn 80 to get the return on the investment according to hn 304 quote i was told

01:50:00 according to hn 304 quote i was told that my deployment would be four years i was told that this was the perfect length because it would take 12 months to become properly efficient but if the deployment was more than four years i

01:50:11 deployment was more than four years i would either burn out or become stressed that i would be ineffective the four-year deployment remained in place since the 1980s with the 1982 sds

01:50:24 place since the 1980s with the 1982 sds annual report also noting that a tour of duty in the sts was quote normally a maximum of four years the non-state cooperating group want to understand whether there was a positive and considered managerial decision to

01:50:36 and considered managerial decision to extend all deployments well beyond 12 months and if so by whom were any risks taken into consideration or were the undercover officers simply allowed to drift on without robust management and clear guidance

01:50:48 management and clear guidance the length of deployments is a significant consideration it is not rocket science that the longer an undercover officer is deployed the

01:51:00 undercover officer is deployed the greater chance there is of collateral intrusion the development of close personal ties sexual and intimate relationships misconduct and abuse of power and trust the extent to which managers knew about

01:51:15 the extent to which managers knew about the risk of undercover officers engaging in sexual relationships when undercover is both highly sensitive and contentious roy creamer says in his witness statement that quote i would give them fatherly advice like not

01:51:28 give them fatherly advice like not taking drugs not getting involved with mischief and not getting illnesses mischief and illnesses are curiously not defined

01:51:36 defined managers clearly decided that married undercover officers were preferable for deployments very few are willing to admit however that this was an attempt to guard

01:51:49 that this was an attempt to guard against sexual activity when undercover it is of note that david bicknell a manager who oversaw the sds move to escort in 1974 and he states um

01:51:59 um is quoted as saying the reason married men were favored is because it was considered that there would be less temptation for them to enter into inappropriate relationships with women

01:52:11 with women the maximum that an officer was allowed to be in a harry was two years and this was considered an absolute rule end of quote if there was an absolute two-year rule why was it so blatantly broken

01:52:24 why was it so blatantly broken did the managers simply ignore the obvious risks knowing what the inevitable consequences might be particularly regarding inappropriate relationships

01:52:39 in terms of training the undercover officers who gave evidence in t1p 1 and p2

01:52:43 p2 have told this inquiry that the early guidance documents referred to above were not shown to them by managers but some did seem to know from their basic police training that they should not commit crimes or have relationships when undercover

01:52:56 relationships when undercover in the very early years of the sds roy creamer and conrad dixon had significant knowledge of left-wing politics and would provide political briefings

01:53:10 would provide political briefings however apart from some time in the back office undercover officers reported having no or very scant training there were certainly no trainings for undercover officers about not actively participating in groups what

01:53:23 participating in groups what intelligence to collect and privacy concerns

01:53:30 concerns now some officers have given evidence in closed hearings in triangular phase 4 t1p4

01:53:31 t1p4 these officers have reported the existence of a large possibly black loose leaf folder with notations from previous officers on tradecraft tradecraft sorry

01:53:42 tradecraft sorry why have all the undercover officers who've already given evidence in the open hearings not referred to this folder the non-state cooperating group asked

01:53:54 asked this inquiry must we say look at the basic police training given to all undercover officers whilst attending police staff college at brams hill police officers must surely have received basic training on legal

01:54:09 received basic training on legal principles and professional conduct such as lawfulness of entering a private property without a search warrant engaging in sexual relationships whilst on duty and participating in crimes if so

01:54:20 if so how did undercover officers and indeed any of the managers reconcile this training with the undemocratic and illegitimate system of undercover policing that they encountered when they joined the sds

01:54:37 it is also important for the inquiry to explore how managers themselves were trained

01:54:40 trained all the witness statements to date note that managers did not receive any training other than learning on the job however some managers previously worked in either b squad or c squad

01:54:54 in either b squad or c squad it will be important for the inquiry to understand how prior management and police experience in the wider metropolitan police special branch influence policing tactics developed by the sds

01:55:02 the sds separately how did inexperienced managers such as derrick bryce and jeffrey kraft neither of whom had ever worked undercover in the sds learn about tradecraft

01:55:15 tradecraft did they also read the black loosely folder in the back office the evidence to be heard from managers in t1p3 on training and the evolution of trade craft is of

01:55:29 evolution of trade craft is of particular importance to the bereaved families of deceased children whose identities were used by the sds this is the period when the practice began and the evidence from the managers is highly relevant to how that practice became normalized within the sds

01:55:40 became normalized within the sds leading to its adoption as a tactic by the national public or intelligence unit the theft of the identities of deceased children was an immoral and unlawful

01:55:54 children was an immoral and unlawful practice that set the tone for a unit that operated outside the usual legal and moral strictures of policing

01:56:07 i'm now going to make some comments on the topic of empire building funding and justification for the sds

01:56:13 the non-state cooperating group do not accept that the mps's public order explanation could ever justify and render lawful the activities of the sds without prejudice to that view it is however clear that the public

01:56:28 it is however clear that the public order justifications put forward on behalf of the nps the metropolitan police special branch and sds simply do not stand up to scrutiny

01:56:39 not stand up to scrutiny the figures published by stephen taylor qc in january 2015

01:56:42 2015 show

01:56:45 show the sds budget allocation from the home office rose significantly from three thousand pounds in 1969 to 8600 in 1975 to six and to thirty 000 in 1982 to 1983

01:56:58 and to thirty 000 in 1982 to 1983 however within the vast quantity of undercover reporting before this inquiry there is very little evidence of reporting relevant to public disorder the apparent raise on debt of the sds

01:57:12 the apparent raise on debt of the sds the overwhelming majority of undercover surveillance reporting disclosed to date focused on organizations that had absolutely no ability to be genuinely subversive

01:57:23 subversive and as already established this surveillance was known to be unlawful certain managers in t1 p3 seek to explain the lack of public order

01:57:34 explain the lack of public order reporting by focusing on the fact that disclosure for this inquiry was largely obtained from the security services and that there are apparently

01:57:49 and that there are apparently significant amounts of missing documents on sds public order policing this is simply not credible there is little evidence within the t1 disclosure to support managers assertions that the sds was in fact successful in public order policing

01:58:04 successful in public order policing the documents disclosed for t1 show that for a large part of the era under consideration by this inquiry public disorder was on the way the memorandum of 19th of march 1976 prepared for the 1975

01:58:19 prepared for the 1975 sds daniel report by chief inspector derek neal notes that quote there has been over the past years have been a decline in the disorders associated with political demonstrations this annual report states

01:58:34 this annual report states that the biggest demonstration in 1975 had been organized by the national abortion campaign which attracted 15 to 20 000 supporters but it was noted that quote although

01:58:45 but it was noted that quote although this was a very emotive issue there was no disorder the 1976 annual report authored by chief

01:59:00 the 1976 annual report authored by chief inspector jeffrey kraft seeks to justify the continuation of the sds not because it predicted and prevented significant public disorder in the previous year but rather the exact opposite the sds had saved police time in numbers by showing that there was no threat to public disorder from planned demonstrations

01:59:13 demonstrations jeffrey kraft even boasts to the home office that this proved that quote demonstration assessment has been tuned into a fine art establishing that there was no risk of

01:59:28 establishing that there was no risk of public disorder to save police resources does not justify the gross and unlawful infringement of rights and the invasion of privacy perpetuated by the sds

01:59:42 the targeting of the workers revolutionary party by the sds provides another perfect example of how far the sds had drifted further into unlawful and shadowy work that posed no threat to public order

01:59:56 public order how can managers giving evidence to this inquiry be so sure and that the sds was making a positive and important contribution to public order policing during this t1 era is there any evidence that they were

02:00:09 is there any evidence that they were qualitatively assessing the usefulness of sds reporting from a public order perspective is there any evidence that they sought and obtained feedback from their clients in public order divisions the answer can only be no

02:00:23 the answer can only be no it is clear from the manager's evidence to date that they are seeking to distance themselves from having any responsibility for assessing or questioning the qualitative value of undercover reporting

02:00:34 undercover reporting in terms of feedback david smith the

02:00:46 in terms of feedback david smith the first office manager in the sds between october 1970 and october 1974 does not recall ever getting feedback from the recipients of the intelligence there is however a rare document in the t1 disclosure from 1978 which is a

02:00:58 t1 disclosure from 1978 which is a memorandum from the then newly appointed detective chief inspector of the sds hm135 michael ferguson to the detective chief superintendent of s branch

02:01:11 chief superintendent of s branch this material is a defensive response to criticism apparently made by a department's deputy assistant commissioner about the accuracy of sds intelligence from an anl rally the usefulness of the sds to public order policing is best summarized

02:01:25 order policing is best summarized by roy creamer when he states that quote the idea that the sds would find out and reveal plans was wishful thinking i think

02:01:35 i think in terms of metropolitan police special branch institutional analysis of the sds contribution to public order policing

02:01:48 contribution to public order policing the most significant attempt to review in the t1 era occurred on the 24th of february 1976. this is when commander matt roger tasked chief inspector of s squad rollo watts to set up a study group to assist in the

02:02:02 to set up a study group to assist in the forthcoming request for funding from the home office warts was asked to undertake a complete review of the squad in light of the fact that quote over the past seven years however this form of

02:02:15 past seven years however this form of political activity by minority extremist groups has dwindled considerably and with the exception of redline square conflict in 1974 and possibly one or two other incidents of deliberate confrontation

02:02:27 confrontation upsurges in violence on the streets have become less and less frequent now three questions were posed one of

02:02:39 now three questions were posed one of which was quote what proportion of the overall intelligence gathered is of primary benefit towards assisting uniform police officers to control public meetings and demonstrations and that which is of interest mainly to the security service

02:02:54 security service chief superintendents r wilson hn 332 and chief inspector derek neal and detective inspector jeffrey kraft were all part of the group under watts in his report back

02:03:08 in his report back what's vigorously made the case for the continuation of the sds however

02:03:12 however what is notable is that his report does not answer the question posed above on how much sds work was dominated by the security services what is both clear and significant

02:03:26 what is both clear and significant however is an emphasis by what's on the importance of the sds intelligence for the security services what dodged the public order question because no doubt he well understood that the vast majority of what the sds were doing was deeply problematic and

02:03:40 doing was deeply problematic and unjustifiable surveillance for the security services this was clearly a lost opportunity for senior managers to give an honest

02:03:51 senior managers to give an honest appraisal of the utility justification and indeed lawfulness of the sds and to face up to the precise extent to which their role had become dominated by intelligence collection for the security services

02:04:10 now the sds managers insist that the sds benefited and improved the metropolitan police special branch's attitude to public order policing however this does not stand up to scrutiny the significant public order events of this era namely redline square south

02:04:23 this era namely redline square south hall and lewisham were not preempted or policed successfully because of the work conducted by the sds the demonstration at south hall was

02:04:36 the demonstration at south hall was undoubtedly a catastrophic failure of metropolitan police special branch policing which resulted in the death of a teacher blair peach hm41 sorry hit blair peach hm 41 who gave

02:04:53 sorry hit blair peach hm 41 who gave evidence in the secret hearings in t1 p4 spoke of quote disastrous mistakes in the public order uh planning for southpaw and that quote there was a perception that the public order branch weren't perhaps as receptive to some of our ideas

02:05:04 our ideas as we thought they might have been that was the impression i got from the management because the met with redacted and then with southall had had sort of

02:05:16 and then with southall had had sort of significant problems that perhaps they needn't have had the left wing and campaign groups that the sds targeted were an inevitable

02:05:27 the sds targeted were an inevitable reaction to the injustices in society not the cause of public disorder the failure of the sds operations at red lion square south hall and lewisham was the failure to recognize that the

02:05:38 was the failure to recognize that the fundamental cause of public disorder at such events was public revulsion against fascist mobilizations and the police being seen to protect them

02:05:53 the managers were ultimately responsible for the quality accuracy and relevance of the reporting being produced by their undercover officers whom they managed there is evidence to suggest that some managers were aware of this and either

02:06:07 managers were aware of this and either tailored the reporting or turned a blind eye to irrelevant reporting roy creamer comments in his witness statement that quote comrade dixon and i would discuss the information and then i

02:06:19 would discuss the information and then i would draft what i thought we should say in the report i would put words that i would put into words what i knew he ought to be saying i was like radar from mash the reference to radar

02:06:33 the reference to radar from mash is both significant and telling

02:06:41 telling derek butler commented that this type of sds deployment resulted in undercover officers becoming embedded for long periods when there was no scope for public order reporting and hence quote subconsciously at least they felt

02:06:55 subconsciously at least they felt obliged to earn their keep by turning in reports on membership start points for future inquiries and the internal dynamics of their group this may have occasionally included gossip or irrelevance

02:07:09 despite appreciating that undercover officers were reporting gossip and irrelevance the managers giving evidence in t1 did not

02:07:19 not by their own admission undertake robust quality of analysis of sds reporting they did not assess its value and usefulness in the public order field or indeed encountering subversion

02:07:31 indeed encountering subversion they did not see the threat assessments produced if indeed any were produced from sds reporting and they did not obtain regular feedback this underscores a significant and

02:07:45 this underscores a significant and systemic flaw at the heart of the sds managers did not conduct a detailed cost-benefit analysis weighing up the collateral damage that might be caused against the true value of the intelligence being obtained as a result

02:07:59 as a result they failed to consider the threat to freedom of speech and democratic principles posed by the sds these were obvious matters that were being raised in public in parliament

02:08:11 in parliament and went to the heart of the lawfulness and justification of the activities of the sds

02:08:15 the sds the non-state cooperating group want to know

02:08:18 know why these issues were not considered at the time

02:08:22 the time why was there such a fundamental lack of critical thinking

02:08:30 these are important questions because it was the duty of managers to write in an honest way to the home secretary to request an extension of funding for the continuation of the sds as jeffrey craft states quote

02:08:41 as jeffrey craft states quote the annual reports were directed to the home office and pointing out the value of the sds in terms of public order and seeking continuation for another year end of quote in signing off the annual reports and

02:09:00 in signing off the annual reports and the accompanying memorandum a manager as a senior police officer must have known that they were confirming the contents as accurate the suggestion by trevor butler that his role was merely quote editorial is not only a staggering admission of managerial failure

02:09:21 managerial failure but also a blatant attempt to create distance from documents that are obviously flawed and misleading and now turn to targeting and justification the inquiry is tasked to answer several fundamental questions on the targeting of infiltrated groups

02:09:32 of infiltrated groups this is vital to understanding what went wrong and why on the face of existing evidence these were unlawful ideologically motivated and profoundly undemocratic political policing operations

02:09:48 policing operations there was no reasonable policing purpose proportionate to the level of intrusion involved

02:09:50 involved the answers to the above questions on targeting should have formed the bedrock of any possible justification of the lawfulness or necessity of these operations

02:10:01 operations vague or non-existent answers are therefore damning in themselves and only serve to confirm what the evidence already suggests that these operations were unjustified an unjustifiable

02:10:16 were unjustified an unjustifiable violations of people's privacy and political rights and that they were unlawful and unnecessary in a democratic society the evidence from undercover officers paints a mixed picture on targeting

02:10:30 paints a mixed picture on targeting as the sds evolved following the growth and square demonstrations some undercover officers stated that they were tasked to infiltrate specific groups whilst others described largely

02:10:42 groups whilst others described largely having a free reign and often drifting around left-wing or anarchist groups reporting on whatever or whoever they came across in terms of public order the managers suggest that they were not fully

02:10:55 suggest that they were not fully responsible for targeting decisions both barry moss and jeffrey kraft suggest that targeting came from c squad with references to daily discussions

02:11:08 with references to daily discussions between the commander of operations and his operational chief superintendents the managers within the sds did influence and control targeting to some extent

02:11:14 extent for example barry moss admits that on his arrival he considered that quote the unit was a bit heavy on the socialist workers party and so when hn19 was

02:11:29 workers party and so when hn19 was recruited he was deployed to the rcp and the communist party of great britain marxist leninist however

02:11:37 however what the managers are unified on is that direction to the sds on targeting was coming from much more senior levels within the metropolitan police special branch and the metropolitan police service

02:11:49 service the managers must now explain what they know about the political direction in sds targeting decisions this is particularly important to category e trade unions and trade union members

02:12:01 trade unions and trade union members in terms of the targeting of so-called subversids

02:12:14 subversids we can see that this targeting direction clearly came from the security services the non-state cooperating group invite the inquiry to explore with managers whether they shared the concerns of canal commander gilbert did managers query whether it was in fact lawful and appropriate in a democratic society for police officers

02:12:27 democratic society for police officers to target groups and individuals engaged in lawful activities we know that barry moss for example accepts that whilst he was undercover he did not ever witness anything that was subversive

02:12:42 subversive this echoes the evidence of many of the undercover officers who has already given evidence to this inquiry it then begs the obvious question as to why the sds continued in its unlawful surveillance of lawful democratic

02:12:55 surveillance of lawful democratic activities and why more questions weren't asked

02:13:00 i'm now going to turn to welfare and supervision as this inquiry is already heard the t1 era marks the emergence of inappropriate and abhorrent behavior by undercover officers whilst they were being actively

02:13:16 officers whilst they were being actively managed and where managers were visiting the safe houses approximately twice a week

02:13:17 week it is shocking to the non-state cooperating group that all of the managers who are due to give oral evidence in t1p3 and those who provided witness

02:13:30 and those who provided witness statements for this phase deny having any knowledge of both inappropriate sexual relationships and any of the deeply sexist and misogynistic banter that it is now clear took place in the safe house when managers were present

02:13:44 safe house when managers were present this is particularly so in light of the evidence that has recently emerged from the t1p4 secret hearings where undercover officers also talk about sexist banter and joking

02:13:57 about sexist banter and joking about sexual conquests when undercover unfortunately the non-state cooperating group could not explore this evidence further as it was given in secret

02:14:08 further as it was given in secret the managers are at pains to point out that their primary duty was the welfare of undercover officers this was recognized as a vital function given the unique stress of undercover work

02:14:21 unique stress of undercover work almost every sds annual report to the home office emphasizes the close supervision of officers and managerial attention to welfare welfare

02:14:37 it is therefore shocking for the non-state cooperating group that despite the evidence this inquiry has already heard

02:14:41 heard jeffrey kraft still maintains in his witness statement that quote i do not think any police officers were more carefully monitored than this lot despite this bold assertion jeffrey kraft and angus mcintosh both

02:14:58 jeffrey kraft and angus mcintosh both deny knowing that hn 297 rick clarke and hn 300 jim pickford engaged in sexual relationships with activists with the latter falling in love and leaving his wife we know from the gisted evidence

02:15:11 wife we know from the gisted evidence disclosed in preparation for the secret hearings in t1p4 that an undercover officer reports jeffrey kraft specifically advising

02:15:23 jeffrey kraft specifically advising against sexual relationships stating quote it would be beyond stupid and cause all sorts of problems this inquiry must get to the bottom of the manager's attitudes to sexual relationships and pin down exactly what is meant by all sorts of problems

02:15:41 is meant by all sorts of problems the judgment of the investigatory powers tribunal in the case of um kate wilson versus commissioner of the metropolis and national uh police chiefs council of 2021 specifically concluded that

02:15:52 of 2021 specifically concluded that violations of article 3 of the european convention on human rights and miscarriages of justice were ignored because managers put first the maintaining of secrecy of the undercover

02:16:05 maintaining of secrecy of the undercover operation and ensuring a continuation of funding

02:16:07 funding the non-state cooperating group have also recently learned that rick clark had a reputation for being quote a bit of a lad

02:16:15 of a lad which included quote womanising however again the non-state cooperating group discover in the gisted material

02:16:26 group discover in the gisted material from the secret hearings in t1p4 that hn 300 was quote a sexual predator and quote was confined to the office because he was an alcoholic

02:16:37 he was an alcoholic an undercover officer in these secret hearings in t1p4 also clearly states that it was angus mcintosh who dealt with hn 300 falling in love when undercover

02:16:49 in love when undercover this is conspicuously absent from angus mcintosh's witness statement jeffrey kraft continues to claim no knowledge of the activities of hn13 barry desmond loader who was arrested twice in 1977 and 1978

02:17:04 twice in 1977 and 1978 the documents disclosed to date highlight other managers interfering in the court process with an update even being given to the commissioner of the metropolitan police it is simply inexplicable to suggest

02:17:17 it is simply inexplicable to suggest that such matters would be hidden from jeffrey kraft who is a detective chief inspector in the sds

02:17:29 inspector in the sds this inquiry must press map the managers to explain these glaring contradictions in the evidence were managers deliberately overstating their monitoring and supervision of undercover officers or did they know what was going on and

02:17:42 or did they know what was going on and willfully turn a blind eye or was it the case that they positively sanctioned such conduct to maximize the product for their customers finally a glaring omission in relation to welfare in the annual reports and

02:17:59 to welfare in the annual reports and witness evidence is any suggestion that efforts were made to check and protect the welfare of those targeted and reported on including any consideration for the welfare of the families of the deceased children whose identities were being used

02:18:10 being used as we can see from the t1p4 secret hearings undercover officers attended weddings and funerals of those being targeted

02:18:23 targeted spent time in their private homes and even babysat young children when undercover i now turn to make a few comments about the sds annual reports in terms of significant management

02:18:36 in terms of significant management failures and the accuracy and honesty of the sds annual reports certain undercover offices and deployments stand out

02:18:41 out hn155 phil cooper was deployed between 1979 and january 1984 when the following managers were imposed barry moss

02:18:52 barry moss mike ferguson trevor butler nigel david short hn 68 sean lynch and hm 45 dave robertson

02:19:06 hm 45 dave robertson hn 155 infiltrated the waltham forest anti-nuclear campaign the socialist workers party and the right to work campaign he gained two no notable positions of responsibility as a treasurer in the wolf and forest

02:19:19 as a treasurer in the wolf and forest anti-nuclear campaign and then in the right to work campaign reporting signed off by the manager dave short

02:19:30 short notes that in the right to work campaign ernie roberts mp was normally the treasurer

02:19:31 treasurer while hn15 five five signed the checks and controlled the account a significant position of responsibility and control

02:19:44 now there came a time when managers realized that hn155 was a problematic officer on the 29th of june 1982 it is recorded by the security services

02:19:58 recorded by the security services that the managers hn 68 sean lynch and dave short reported

02:20:03 reported that there were serious doubts about the performance of hn155 and that his quote days were numbered end of quote due to other quote misdemeanors and that he was soon to be withdrawn

02:20:20 and that he was soon to be withdrawn incidentally it is in the same note that reference is made to hn 106 barry tompkins having bedded blank and been warned off by his bosses on the 30th of july 1982 hn 68 sean lynch

02:20:31 lynch told the security services that despite his misdemeanors cooper has not been withdrawn as an sds source there is a further reference in this document

02:20:42 document to the manager hatred 68 being quote slightly worried by the case because cooper's position in the right to work movement gives him regular access to

02:20:54 movement gives him regular access to ernie roberts mp and meetings at the house of commons end of quote it is clear that hn68 sean lynch was in fact really concerned about the lawfulness of hm155's actions

02:21:07 lawfulness of hm155's actions it seems that he understood the potential scandal that would erupt in parliament if it ever came to light that the metropolitan police special branch and sds

02:21:17 and sds were conducting covert surveillance in close proximity to and quite possibly on a sitting member of parliament and in parliament itself

02:21:32 parliament itself the security services however didn't appear to raise an eyebrow hn155 remained in post hm155 initially admitted to a risk assessor that he had engaged in two three or possibly more sexual

02:21:45 three or possibly more sexual relationships when undercover but he that he later then denied this julia pointer a witness to this inquiry met hm155

02:21:55 met hm155 in the waltham forest anti-nuclear campaign

02:21:59 campaign julia refers to hm155 regularly getting stoned and on one occasion being so inebriated he fell off his chair and broke it

02:22:06 broke it hm155 said in a risk assessment interview that he quote lived a full and alternative life in a medical interview on the 12th of november 2020

02:22:19 november 2020 hm155 admitted that he was quote a heavy drinker

02:22:24 drinker during undercover deployment years with occasional drug taking as part of the scene

02:22:30 scene undercover office of drug taking is also referenced in the t1p4 closed off suggest

02:22:33 suggest and it is a topic that will feature in tranche 2. trevor butler was the manager who signed off the 1979 and the 1981 annual reports to the home office and in both reports he was at great

02:22:48 and in both reports he was at great pains to emphasize the close supervision that he and his fellow managers exercised over all undercover officers stating

02:22:57 stating in the 1979 annual report that quote the nature of the delicate and difficult duty performed by sds operational officers renders it imperative that close supervision and attention to welfare are continually maintained

02:23:14 welfare are continually maintained the 1981 annual report written in 1982 by trevor butler also stressed um

02:23:17 um on the issue of welfare that the close supervision exercised is essential but curiously the right to work march occupies seven lines in the 1981 sds annual report and is described as the

02:23:32 annual report and is described as the socialist workers party's quote notable adventure there is no reference to public disorder and indeed we know that the march itself in which hm155 paid a key role was not even considered a

02:23:46 key role was not even considered a public order risk by manager barry moss the events were of such limited importance that they did not even feature in the 1981 metropolitan police special branch annual report

02:23:59 special branch annual report what is conspicuous by its absence in this

02:24:00 this sds 1981 sds annual report is any mention of h0155 acting as a treasurer alongside an elected mp

02:24:13 alongside an elected mp that hn155 was drinking to excess drug taking and having sexual relationships when undercover there is also no mention that hm106 was betting a woman which was tarnishing his intelligence

02:24:28 intelligence why is it the home office was not being told about this undercover officer activity by trevor butler was it because trevor butler knew that he was the one who placed hm155 in the right to work campaign

02:24:39 the right to work campaign i'm going to make some comments about racism

02:24:49 racism in the t1 era and beyond the sds and the metropolitan police special branch were fixed in their own deeply politicized racist and misogynistic narratives which saw public order as inextricably linked to organized groups on the left

02:25:00 linked to organized groups on the left the metropolitan police special branch in the sds seemed incapable of appreciating that in a democratic society citizens could campaign against injustice and demand social change on matters of social and public importance

02:25:17 matters of social and public importance such as racism without being subversive this is classically exemplified by the comments of rollo watts recorded on the 15th of october 1976 where he told the security services

02:25:29 where he told the security services quote that there had been a build-up of racial tensions in brixton and the metropolitan police special branch are undertaking a study of the problem to commence in brixton and one of its most important aspects was to discover to

02:25:40 important aspects was to discover to what extent left-wing extremists were influencing the coloured population in this area

02:25:51 the review section of the 1981 annual report clearly shows that 1981 was a deeply unsuccessful year for the sds

02:26:03 deeply unsuccessful year for the sds they were focused on peaceable marches and rallies on wage poverty and the campaign for nuclear disarmament the brixton riots in april 1981 were amongst the most significant public order events of the period they were not caused by the left-wing

02:26:20 they were not caused by the left-wing campaign groups but were spontaneous and uncoordinated uprisings against racist policing

02:26:22 policing this was simply not understood or honestly reflected upon by the sds in the 1981 annual report despite the findings of the scarman inquiry the sds seemed incapable of honestly

02:26:36 the sds seemed incapable of honestly appraising the roots and calls of public disorder in the t1 era i'm going to make some comments now in relation to misogyny in the same way that racism and political bias undermine the

02:26:48 political bias undermine the metropolitan police special branch and the sds response to popular protests in brixton

02:26:56 brixton there were parallels in the way in which women were perceived and treated it is clear that a pernicious culture of misogyny contributed to highly inappropriate policing decisions affecting women

02:27:10 affecting women the non-state cooperating group know that the sds considered it was appropriate to target women campaigning around reproductive rights and fair pay as they were deemed to be subversive

02:27:22 as they were deemed to be subversive managers thought nothing of belittling these women in sexist and derogatory ways such as the comment that quote 500 women many patiently emotionally unstable and quite paranoid paranoially

02:27:36 unstable and quite paranoid paranoially opposed to men end of quote attended the women's liberation spring conference throughout this time there is strong evidence to suggest that managers

02:27:48 evidence to suggest that managers repeatedly either condoned or turned a blind eye to increasingly frequent incidents of inappropriate sexual behavior by their officers as well as misogynistic banter the fact that such banter was considered harmless

02:28:03 harmless and not worthy of managerial challenge is evidence itself of deep-seated institutional misogyny this managerial attitude is perfectly illustrated by the following comment in the witness statement of hn368 richard walker

02:28:17 walker who on sexist safe house banter stated quote

02:28:18 quote men who say things about women don't always mean it or follow through with what they say

02:28:29 ironically managers and indeed the metropolitan police special branch hierarchy

02:28:30 hierarchy were more than willing to keep an extremely close eye on some undercover officer relationships with women but only when it suited their interests when the metropolitan police special branch received an anonymous letter

02:28:49 branch received an anonymous letter about undercover officer hm126 paul gray having a sexual relationship with another police officer in police accommodation barry moss paid a visit to the wife of hn126 paul gray barry moss subsequently described the

02:29:01 barry moss subsequently described the wife as quote a strong woman and not in need of any welfare support which may give the inquiry an indication of the tone of meeting the wife's handwriting was obtained and sent for analysis

02:29:12 sent for analysis and this outcome which was that she was probably wrote the anonymous letter was presented to her by barry moss presumably the objective was to intimidate her into remaining silent

02:29:24 intimidate her into remaining silent about the concerns she had about the sexual activity of her husband hm126 paul gray

02:29:33 paul gray concerns which it seems were not investigated it is telling that managers in the metropolitan police special branch senior hierarchy thought that it was appropriate and lawful to use police

02:29:48 appropriate and lawful to use police resources in such an illegitimate and corrupt manner to cover up potential undercover officer misdeeds rather than consider the substance of the allegations that were being made in other words serious police misconduct

02:30:01 other words serious police misconduct it seems that protecting the sds took precedence over all considerations and it seems that no action was off limits no matter how unlawful the non-state cooperating group draw a parallel here between the unlawful use

02:30:13 parallel here between the unlawful use of police resources against an innocent woman to protect the sds and the approach taken by the sds management to justice campaigns also considered to pose a threat

02:30:27 also considered to pose a threat such as the friends of the blair peach committee and the stephen lawrence campaign

02:30:33 campaign managers justified the use of identities of deceased children with reference to the fact that they thought that the families of children would never find out or know this is another illustrative example of a pervasive belief within the sds that

02:30:46 a pervasive belief within the sds that no one would ever find out about their operations it gave undercover officers a license to act unchecked and outside the parameters of the law

02:30:58 of the law now so just some short comments on blacklisting the chair will recall the comments made on behalf of the metropolitan police service in their opening statement for t1p2

02:31:17 t1p2 on so-called blacklisting organizations and the upset that this caused amongst non-state cooperating group who have suffered so acutely as a result of blacklisting the latest disclosure in t1p3 sheds more light on backlisting by the security services in government departments and certain public corporations including

02:31:31 certain public corporations including the bbc and firms which have not been disclosed

02:31:35 disclosed the documents show the tension between the security services and the metropolitan police special branch on who controls the passing of intelligence and vetting with the security services indicating that quote security service is the normal

02:31:51 quote security service is the normal channel for passing security information in an emphatic response to the security services dated the 10th of november 1975 the metropolitan police special branch

02:32:02 the metropolitan police special branch makes clear that they will continue to pass security information as the metropolitan police special branch has built up contacts in the civil service armed forces and other organizations which employ former police officers and

02:32:18 which employ former police officers and with whom there exists a quote close and mutually profitable relationship the metropolitan police special branch were clear that they were going to continue facilitating blacklisting

02:32:29 continue facilitating blacklisting the managers of the sds now need to explain which of their intelligence was collected or used for this abhorrent and devastating purpose in terms of specific examples of

02:32:43 in terms of specific examples of blacklisting we know that the sds were tasked to spy on the workers revolutionary party and in particular roy battersby that intelligence was provided to the security services who were expressly

02:32:56 security services who were expressly given the task of collating files in order to vet those seeking posts in sensitive government bodies including as i've mentioned the bbc indeed the bbc have confirmed and described this process

02:33:07 described this process as is clear from roy battersby's statement there is clear evidence that as a bafta winner he is one of those who was blacklisted he was by no means the only one

02:33:24 he was by no means the only one this creates a very clear paper trail of blacklisting directly implicating the sds

02:33:25 sds as roy battersby makes clear in his own statement this practice was an attack on the democratic process elections privacy and freedom

02:33:42 elections privacy and freedom of political and artistic expression and in particular the plurality of voices and standpoints of our national broadcaster the bbc

02:33:49 so i'll now turn to some very brief points on procedural issues the northern state cooperating group has raised a number of important procedural

02:34:00 raised a number of important procedural matters in the written opening statement but given the limited time i will not deal with these matters today i do however want to make four short points

02:34:05 points the first relates to delay and as i've already stated at the outset the non-state cooperating group does remain extremely concerned about

02:34:20 does remain extremely concerned about the progress of this inquiry and i want to again reiterate the request for a clear timetable for the inquiry's ongoing work the second point relates to your intention so to publish an interim report as set out by council and to the inquiry mr barr qc in his opening

02:34:32 inquiry mr barr qc in his opening statement for transgender phase three in due course the non-state cooperating group will seek to address this issue

02:34:46 group will seek to address this issue and ask that a timetable for submissions is set down to allow this to happen the third point i wish to address relates to the further investigations that are being made by this inquiry to gather evidence relevant to the sds from the wider metropolitan police special branch

02:35:00 metropolitan police special branch the non-state cooperating group has always maintained that investigating the sds cannot take place in a vacuum it is now clear from the managers who

02:35:16 it is now clear from the managers who assumed to give evidence that in some of the t1 era targeting was being directed and influenced from outside the sds by the security services and others sds interaction with the security services is a key component in the preliminary draft module 2b issues list

02:35:33 issues list the non-state cooperating group intends to address the inquiry on the scope of its investigations relating to the security services after t1p3 and in the first instance as part of this consultation on module 2b issues list

02:35:47 on module 2b issues list the fourth point so relates to future hearings

02:35:50 hearings given the length of time between the t1 p3 hearings and t2 the non-state cooperating group requests that the chair

02:36:02 chair so you schedule regular public inquiry management hearings in advance of t2 there are now a range of important matters such as for example the interim report the scope of investigations by security services and of course the legal framework which should be

02:36:19 legal framework which should be considered after formal written and all submissions from all core participants it is also essential that these important matters are raised and considered in public hearings so that the public and core participants can see the process by which decisions are made

02:36:39 the process by which decisions are made the non-state cooperating group suggests that formal hearings are often the most productive forum in which to seek to resolve matters in a way that best assists the inquiry now so just some very short concluding observations

02:36:51 observations the wrongdoing engaged in by the sds was not an exception to an otherwise lawful and justified policing operation rather the sds was from its very inception and lawful and in contravention of basic policing

02:37:04 contravention of basic policing principles and a threat to democracy however this was no accident mark ellis and qc and operation hearn were right to suggest that the failures

02:37:15 were right to suggest that the failures of sds management were in part caused by secrecy and the lack of external scrutiny

02:37:17 scrutiny the sds was not simply a rogue unit operating in hiding and insulated from internal metropolitan police special branch and home office scrutiny the sds was specifically designed to

02:37:32 the sds was specifically designed to remain a secret from the public and from parliament it was only by remaining under cloak of

02:37:44 it was only by remaining under cloak of secrecy that the sds could carry out the type of surveillance activities that were not and are not committed in a democratic society other than a select few many in the home office were simply not aware

02:37:51 aware those in power who did know sanctioned the evolution of the sds and took every opportunity on behalf of the governments of the day to ensure the sds remains a secret

02:38:02 secret the judgment of the investigatory powers tribune in wilson that i've already mentioned puts beyond doubt that undercover policing

02:38:13 beyond doubt that undercover policing operations of the sds and later units violated fundamental human rights the non-state cooperating group endorse and adopt the opening statement made by charlotte kilroy qc on behalf of the category h core participants

02:38:27 category h core participants many of the managers giving evidence in t1p3 make reference to the fact that the sds practices went on over 50 years ago and should be considered in their historical context however this is simply not correct

02:38:44 however this is simply not correct the illegitimate surveillance political policing and abhorrent and unlawful tradecraft and misogyny which was allowed to become embedded in t1 1968 to 1962

02:38:55 1962 set the course for all of the future undercover policing operations these abhorrent practices survived and even flourished following legal reforms such as those introduced by the

02:39:07 such as those introduced by the regulation of investigatory powers act 2000

02:39:08 2000 this will be explored in later tranches a fundamental purpose of this inquiry is to identify why there was such a

02:39:19 to identify why there was such a catastrophic failure of policing at the heart of british democracy and such identification must be rigorously pursued during the t1 p3 hearings

02:39:31 hearings the non-state cooperating group and the public are demanding answers these can only be obtained by a thorough and effective investigation in public and with full disclosure

02:39:46 and with full disclosure this inquiry should not cut corners for reasons of political or financial expediency this is the only way that the victims of unlawful state surveillance can achieve truth and justice and the only way to ensure that these fundamental breaches

02:40:00 ensure that these fundamental breaches of human rights will never happen again thank you sir thank you very much indeed um we will now break for i think 10 minutes until we have the next stage which will be a reading of summaries of the

02:40:12 be a reading of summaries of the evidence of two non-state witnesses which will then conclude proceedings for today thank you

02:49:08 hello

02:49:30 can you hear me

02:49:38 [Music] yeah hello

02:49:46 yeah is that jen yes it is

02:49:48 yes it is yeah okay we're just about to get you'll come on in about five seconds you'll need to switch your camera on as well i can't it's seeing i can't stick start the video with it because

02:50:01 yeah okay we're just about to you'll come on in about five seconds you'll need to switch your camera on as well

02:50:08 well with it

02:50:32 miss malcolm i'm grateful sir i shall be reading the summaries of two witness statements from non-state witnesses i shall start with a statement of madeleine

02:50:46 statement of madeleine this is a summary of the second witness statement of co-participant madeleine dated the 16th of march 2022 the full witness statement will be published on the inquiries website later on today

02:50:58 on today this is a supplemental witness statement to our first witness statement which is dated the 18th of february 2021 madeleine gave evidence in may 2021

02:51:11 madeleine gave evidence in may 2021 during the trunch one phase two or t1p2 hearings that she was deceived into a relationship with hn 354 known by the cover name vince miller during the period of the summer and into early autumn of 1979

02:51:25 early autumn of 1979 this second witness statement addresses three issues one a postcard that she received from vince miller at the end of his deployment two the revocation of the restriction

02:51:37 two the revocation of the restriction order over vince miller's real name and disclosure of his real over of his real name vincent james

02:51:50 over of his real name vincent james harvey and three a report which had not been previously disclosed to her and which relates to an event that she believes that she was present at issue one

02:52:00 issue one on the first issue madeleine states that after the ucpi hearings in may 2021 she decided to look at a box containing letters and cards of emotional significance from old boyfriends and close friends at the bottom of this box she found a postcard from vince miller dated january 1980 with the united states air mail

02:52:16 1980 with the united states air mail stamp addressed to madeleine dave and cole

02:52:18 cole and this is now madeleine's exhibit three

02:52:19 three it reads as follows open quote didn't stay long in new york not my kind of place have bust and driven higher cars down here for the winter

02:52:30 winter lost my address books who can only write to people whose addresses i can remember and these might not be right music and people really better than i expected

02:52:41 expected all in all a lot better than walden stove

02:52:44 stove having a bit of trouble getting enough money for everything i want to do so traveling and living living in an old vw wreck nothing new

02:52:57 wreck nothing new good luck to everybody vince close quote states that it is written in the handwriting of vince miller she estimates that it arrived three months after he had disappeared saying that he was going to america she says that she had forgotten its

02:53:10 she says that she had forgotten its existence but does now vaguely recall receiving it and being pleasantly surprised and hopeful that his keeping in touch meant that she would see him again

02:53:18 again she had put it in the box because it had meant something to her madeline also recalls that a friend of hers from the swp had visited vince miller's flat around christmas 1979 to

02:53:31 miller's flat around christmas 1979 to check if he was okay because he had not been seen in some time the friend told madeleine that the door had been answered by open quote two dodgy looking men end quote who asked

02:53:42 dodgy looking men end quote who asked him a lot of questions and told him that vince had gone to america madeleine states that she was surprised by this information because vince miller had told her he lived alone in a bed sit and there had been no answer on each

02:53:55 and there had been no answer on each occasion that she had visited the flat it is madeline's belief that this postcard would have been received shortly after her friend's visit to the flat and she questions whether it was sent in order to divert any suspicions

02:54:07 sent in order to divert any suspicions that could have arisen from the friend's visit

02:54:10 visit madeleine also notes that vincent harvey had said in his witness statement that he left vince miller and his deployment behind him when he left the field and

02:54:22 behind him when he left the field and had not thought of or talked about his former targets at all until his first interview

02:54:23 interview with a risk assessor in 2018 he made no mention of this postcard sent by him three months after the deployment issue two

02:54:33 issue two in vincent harvey's supplementary impact statement of the 9th of march 2021 which addressed the reasons he believed the restriction order over his real name should not be revoked he stated that

02:54:47 should not be revoked he stated that he'd always been honest and open with the inquiry one particular concern that he raised was that publication of his real name prior to his giving evidence open quote

02:55:00 prior to his giving evidence open quote risked having a seriously adverse impact on an immediate family member close quote in march 2021 madeline was told that although the restriction order would ultimately be revoked it was imperative that nothing was done to cause difficulties to the aforementioned

02:55:17 difficulties to the aforementioned family member and she was given a choice she could find out vince miller's real name prior to both of them giving evidence while still subject to the restriction order prohibiting wider disclosure or she could await revocation of the restriction order

02:55:28 of the restriction order madeleine states that she weighed up the issues and while she did not open quote believe that there was any real risk to the immediate family member close quote she did a sympathy for this family member and she did not want to cause

02:55:42 member and she did not want to cause this individual anxiety by publication of vince miller's real name she also wisp to avoid being caused extra stress from being in receipt of information that she could not share

02:55:54 that she could not share she therefore decided to wait to learn his real name until the restriction order had been revoked on the 21st of september 2021 the restriction order was revoked and

02:56:07 restriction order was revoked and madeline learned that vince miller's real name was vincent james harvey this led to her discovery of more information about him and his career trajectory some of which she found shocking

02:56:16 shocking this she states cast him in the evidence that he had given in a different light she had previously understood from the evidence disclosed to her that following his deployment in the special

02:56:29 his deployment in the special demonstration squad vincent harvey had been assured that he would only be in non-public facing roles with the result that he spent 30 years being careful about his security and which would be blown away if his real name was released she had also understood that he had

02:56:40 she had also understood that he had risen to the rank of detective chief inspector in special branch and then left the metropolitan police service to join another force

02:56:51 join another force madeleine states that she was therefore extremely disturbed to learn that vincent harvey had gone on to perform very senior and high profile roles

02:57:04 very senior and high profile roles within the police and that his real name and image were in the public domain through multiple media appearances madeleine states that she was open quote chilled to learn that he had been promoted to the rank of superintendent in the police service

02:57:17 superintendent in the police service before becoming national director of the national criminal intelligence service or ncis

02:57:19 or ncis close quote she questions why someone who had risen to such a senior rank in the police and in such a public facing role was granted

02:57:31 in such a public facing role was granted a restriction order over their real name and why this was not revoked before he gave evidence at the hearings it is madeleine's belief that if his real name had been known at the time he gave evidence and it had been known that

02:57:47 gave evidence and it had been known that he was a former director of the ncis and a highly public figure there would have been greater public scrutiny and press interest which may have led to new witnesses including possibly other deceived women coming forward to the inquiry

02:57:55 inquiry the discovery that he was not only a police officer but a senior one has had a significant further adverse impact on

02:58:06 a significant further adverse impact on her and led to her feeling as she didn't when she was first contacted by the inquiry in 2020 she also feels that she was open quote emotionally manipulated by vincent harvey in his reliance and privacy

02:58:19 harvey in his reliance and privacy concerns arising out of the potential adverse impact on a family member without corresponding on honesty at least in the material given to me about how he had conducted his career close quote

02:58:30 close quote madeleine states that if she had known of his career direct trajectory in march 2021 it would have changed the outcome of the balancing exercise that she undertook

02:58:40 undertook madeline notes that no other former officers gave evidence to the inquiry about vincent harvey's relationships and she queries if this was as a result of his seniority as an officer

02:58:51 his seniority as an officer the lack of knowledge of his real identity at the time of the hearings meant that her legal team could not propose questions to the other officers in order to explore if his role and

02:59:05 in order to explore if his role and profile within the force motivated their reluctance to give evidence on his behaviour

02:59:11 behaviour she states that this denied opportunity is of great concern to her issue 3

02:59:17 issue 3 in relation to the third issue madeleine reiterates the concern that she raised in her first witness statement in that statement she indicated that she thought it extremely unlikely that the 23 documents which she had received in her witness pack were the only documents

02:59:33 her witness pack were the only documents held by the inquiry which related to her contact with vincent harvey she was

02:59:34 she was particularly concerned that she'd not been provided with any document which covered the period of the relationship madeline has subsequently come across a further intelligence report containing

02:59:45 further intelligence report containing information obtained by vincent harvey which was disclosed in the t1p2 bundle but which was not in her witness pack it is a report dated the 25th of september 1979

02:59:57 september 1979 at a time towards the end of her relationship with vincent harvey and relates to a wallham forest district meeting which took place in her home madeline states that she generally attended most branch and district

03:00:08 attended most branch and district meetings and open quote certainly almost all of those that took place in my house close quote whilst madeline states that she cannot be absolutely certain that she was

03:00:19 be absolutely certain that she was present at this meeting as a report records a fairly mundane meeting and at which nothing memorable took place

03:00:30 which nothing memorable took place she thinks it extremely likely that she would have been present given that it took place at her home despite this she is not listed as an attendee

03:00:38 attendee it is her belief that vincent harvey purposefully omitted her name and because this report had been omitted from her witness pack he could not be caught could not be questioned on a

03:00:50 caught could not be questioned on a potential tactic of undercover officers omitting the names of the women they deceived from their reports madeleine is also concerned that report included in the t1p2 bundle included her full address at the time and which she believes had the potential to undermine

03:01:03 believes had the potential to undermine her anonymity order via a mosaic effect

03:01:15 her anonymity order via a mosaic effect it is madeleine's understanding from the designated lawyer's opening statement for t1p2 that are those 65 reports thought to have been offered but authored by vincent harvey were disclosed in the t1p2 hearing bundle there are a further 175 reports which

03:01:28 there are a further 175 reports which the inquiry attributes to him but which have not been disclosed to non-state corps participants madeleine suggests that these 175 reports could relate to other events that she attended with vincent harvey but is not listed on the report as having attended

03:01:42 having attended madeleine explains that as a woman deceived into a relationship she experienced the gravest violation of her privacy and that in order for the inquiry and the public to discover the truth about that violation

03:01:56 truth about that violation she had to stand up and recount details of her most intimate life which she found excruciating she further explains the impact on her of giving oral evidence to the inquiry and records how difficult and stressful she found the questioning

03:02:11 she found the questioning madeleine states open quote it was also insulting and offensive to hear harvey claim that he could not remember our relationship and to suggest to the chair that i may have been lying about it in order to discredit the police close quote

03:02:21 quote madeleine states that as a result of press coverage of her oral evidence her son found out that her first marriage had been a bit abusive which was distressing for him his distress has also impacted on her

03:02:37 his distress has also impacted on her that's the end of the first summary sir if i turn to the second summary this is a summary of the witness statement of julia pointer dated the 11th of march 2022 which has been voluntarily provided to the

03:02:48 been voluntarily provided to the undercover policing inquiry after ms poynter's discovery that the man she knew as vince miller and phil cooper were undercover officers respectfully

03:03:02 were undercover officers respectfully hn 354 whose real name is vince harvey and

03:03:05 and hn155 whose real name is subject to a restriction order the full statement will be published on the inquiries website today with the accompanying exhibits julia pointer states that she was shocked and angered when she was

03:03:23 shocked and angered when she was provided with 62 intelligence reports in which she was named which revealed the extensive extensive invasion of her privacy by undercover officers her witness statement provides evidence about the two undercover officers she knew and in particular about the deceitful sexual relationship between

03:03:34 deceitful sexual relationship between vince miller and her friend madeleine she states that she wishes to place the reporting of these officers in its true context

03:03:43 context by way of background julia poynter states that she first became politically active false at school joining the labour party with whom she soon became disillusioned

03:03:55 disillusioned she came across the socialist workers party or swp all then known as the international socialist towards the end of her sixth form and she was drawn to their version of socialism

03:04:07 of socialism she became a member in 1975 and remained a member for five years she was initially active in the walden snow branch and then the leytonston branch when she moved sometime in 1978. her main focus from 1977 onwards was her

03:04:22 her main focus from 1977 onwards was her anti-racism work through her involvement with the anti-nazi league which was closely affiliated with the swp at that time

03:04:29 time she explains that the late 1970s was a time of high unemployment and that the national front were very active particularly in east london where she lived

03:04:37 lived in 1980 she began studying at college where for a short period she attended socialist meetings before deciding that student politics did not suit her

03:04:55 student politics did not suit her she remained active with the anti-nazi league until 1981 but left the swp in 1980 losing touch with most of her former contacts julia poynter remained involved in politics subsequently spending many years working in local government and being active in trade unions

03:05:06 being active in trade unions it was through her involvement with union work that she became aware of the inquiry

03:05:11 inquiry she attended a union-backed conference in november 2019 on undercover policing and trade unions and then attended a

03:05:23 and trade unions and then attended a talk arranged by unite given by one of the women deceived by an undercover officer

03:05:25 officer julia poynter was then subsequently sufficiently interested to listen to the ucpi hearings in may 2021 where she heard evidence being given about events and groups that she'd been involved in

03:05:36 and groups that she'd been involved in she eventually deduced that the witness that she was listening to was madeleine and that she was describing the vins from malden stone that she had known she was shocked to hear that vince claimed to have had a open quote one

03:05:48 claimed to have had a open quote one night stand with madeleine close quote miss pointer states that not long after the hearings and purely by chance she bumped into madeleine who she had not

03:06:00 bumped into madeleine who she had not seen in over 30 years madden confirmed that vince was an undercover officer with a real name with the name vince miller

03:06:05 miller madeleine also told her that email she knew his phil and who had been a regular visitor at her home was also an undercover officer miss pointer states that she knew vincy's claim about the nature of his

03:06:16 vincy's claim about the nature of his relationship with madeleine was untrue and this is why she has offered to give evidence to the inquiry

03:06:26 vince miller julia poynter first met vince when he started coming to waldenstall's swp branch meetings around 1977.

03:06:32 1977. weekly meetings were held in the rosen crown pub in wolvenstowe with an average of 12 to 15 attendees it was a close-knit friendly group and vince quickly made friends and became popular in the group

03:06:46 popular in the group ms poynter explains that people not only attended demonstrations but socialized together and would often have a drink in the pub after meetings and then go back to the shared house in which madeleine lived which was a social hub

03:07:06 lived which was a social hub vince was also one of the few members of the group who had a vehicle and he used his van to help deliver the swp papers or to help people such as by moving furniture

03:07:12 furniture he was considered to be trustworthy and reliable and he came across as a kind and considerate person and until her discovery as to his real identity she had bought him as one as one of the loveliest people that she had ever met julia pointer recalls when vince told

03:07:26 julia pointer recalls when vince told her in the autumn of 1979 that he was leaving for america she and her then boyfriend held a leaving party for him at their flat her boyfriend was also active in the

03:07:39 her boyfriend was also active in the waldenstall branch of the swp and he was a chef and put a lot of effort into the meal for the leaving party they both liked vince and were sad to see him leave

03:07:50 see him leave julia poynter denies the claim made by vince filler mint miller both in his risk assessment for his anonymity application and in his oral evidence to the inquiry at the hearings in may 2021 that she had wanted to have a relationship with him and that she had made this clear to him

03:08:04 made this clear to him but that he had not reciprocated because it was contrary to sds directions and because he was told that it would not be a good idea

03:08:16 a good idea it is miss pointers belief that what he has said in these two occasions shows that he knew that he should not have been engaging in any sexual relationships

03:08:24 madeline's relationship with vince miller

03:08:27 miller julia poynter met madeline within a year of joining the swp and they all got on well and became close friends spending time together at meetings social events and going on holiday together on a couple of occasions julia states that they confided in each

03:08:41 julia states that they confided in each other about their personal lives and she remembers madeleine discussing her relationship with vince which she knew was a sexual relationship it was clear that madeleine liked him

03:08:52 that madeleine liked him miss pointer recalls madeleine telling her that vince would always leave her flat in the middle of the night and that both she and madeline thought that this was odd

03:09:02 was odd madeline told her that vince had grown up in care and that this had affected him

03:09:03 him julia poynter spent time with both madeleine and vince at branch social activities during the few months that they were together and whilst she knew that they were an item this would not

03:09:14 that they were an item this would not necessarily have been obvious to lots of other people she recalls how disappointed madeleine was when vince ended the relationship after a few months and that she seemed very sad following the breakup julia also remembers madeline being

03:09:28 julia also remembers madeline being shocked and upset the news that vince had left for america phil cooper miss pointer met phil cooper through walden forest anti-nuclear campaign or the wfanc around 1980.

03:09:40 campaign or the wfanc around 1980. her boyfriend at the time had been active in its setup alongside phil for a time she thinks that her boyfriend was secretary of the group and phil was a treasurer

03:09:49 treasurer phil attended wfanc meetings at their house and also came to their house for drinking sessions with her boyfriend and another friend

03:10:00 another friend miss pointer got annoyed to find them all there when she got home from the night shift she has recently got back in touch with that friend and he reminded her that after she had open quote kicked the three of them out of the flat close quote they started going to not

03:10:26 anti-nuclear available at the tuc conference she and her boyfriend are listed as being present in the sds report of this event

03:10:34 event this pointer states that they spent their time leafleting delegates at the conference to come to the fringe meeting and they stayed in a campsite and she produces a photograph of herself and

03:10:48 produces a photograph of herself and phil from this event as her exhibit one julia poynter also recalls going with phil and others from the swp branch to an anti-nazi league demonstration held to counter the national fund national

03:11:00 to counter the national fund national front presence among west ham supporters on the 8th of april 1981. phil took them in his van this pointer has been provided with an intelligence report from this event which claims that the actions of the uniformed police on that day had

03:11:12 uniformed police on that day had prevented classes between the rival groups and that the police had allowed the anti-national front protesters to reassemble after being split up

03:11:23 reassemble after being split up miss pointers recollection of that event differs to that of the author of the report and she records that they were not split up

03:11:34 not split up no help was provided by the police and that public disorder was prevented by the quality of the organizing by the anti-nazi league miss pointer recalls that phil talked of having a girlfriend who was a single parent and that he often went away to stay with her he said he worked as a delivery driver

03:11:49 he said he worked as a delivery driver for a firm supplying marble and although she never saw him work he did turn up one day with a large slab of marble and she still has it and has supplied a photograph of it as her exhibit too

03:12:03 photograph of it as her exhibit too julia pointer lost touch with phil after she and her boyfriend split up in early 1981.

03:12:05 1981. the swp

03:12:09 the swp ms pointer states that her involvement with the swp was limited to branch activity and that she was not active in the wider organization the activities she took part in were mostly different forms of outreach selling the socialist worker newspaper

03:12:21 selling the socialist worker newspaper every saturday and putting lots on lots of public meetings to attract people to listen to their ideas about creating a fairer and more just society

03:12:35 fairer and more just society she describes attending various picket lines in order to show support and solidarity to striking workers she disputes the claims made by phil that those who attempted to cross the picket line and returned to work were threatened with violence and states that

03:12:49 threatened with violence and states that the swp chose to support those in picket lines by providing support to striking workers and sought to dissuade those who tried to cross the picket line by explaining the purpose of the picket

03:13:02 explaining the purpose of the picket she also disputes the claims made in the witness statements of both vince miller and phil cooper that the swp was subversive and that spying on them was justified

03:13:08 justified the anti-nazi league

03:13:19 the anti-nazi league julia pointer explains that much of her involvement in the waldenster swp from late 1977 until 1981 was through her involvement in the anti-nazi league which had formed in response to the rise of the far right she recalls on the 13th of august 1977 she and comrades from the branch attended the counter protest to show

03:13:31 attended the counter protest to show solidarity with the people of lewisham in response to the national front march through new cross an event later known as the battle of lewisham miss pointer cannot specifically recall

03:13:46 miss pointer cannot specifically recall vinsting present on the counter protest but does remember vividly the chaos of the day

03:13:50 the day she notes the claims that vince makes in his witness statement that the night before the demonstration he and others from the swp hit bricks along the route and she states that this does not ring true and is not something that the swp would have done

03:14:04 would have done the swp never took weapons to demonstrations she says

03:14:06 she says open quote violence was simply not what we were about close quote the swp relied in large numbers rather than violence to discourage the national front from attacking

03:14:23 the inquiry is provided julia pointed with 62 intelligence reports most of the reports are of the walden stone branch or outer east london outer east london district swp meetings which she is listed as attending or lists of

03:14:34 listed as attending or lists of attendees of specific demonstrations of which she has won she states that due to the passage of time she cannot recall all of the individual events but she provides her recollection and those that she can remember

03:14:46 remember julia poynter observes that the earliest intelligence report in a witness pack is

03:14:58 intelligence report in a witness pack is won from a branch meeting on the 11th of may 1977 in which her name is listed as an attendee with the accompanying note open quote mentioned re anti-fascist demonstration at duckett's common in 23 477

03:15:04 477 1977 close quote a demonstration that she had attended by this time vince miller had been infiltrating the branch for around five months

03:15:14 months she states that she would have expected to have featured in reports from before may 1977 and to have been provided with a report in relation to the duca's common demonstration

03:15:31 common demonstration ms poynter expressed his surprise at the way that vince miller characterizes the swp in his reports which in her view suggests open quotes and underlying agenda in how he presents the world and still branch close quote she has this reaction to claims made in

03:15:46 she has this reaction to claims made in the reports from 1977 about swp meetings and talk of armed revolution open quote the reporting is laughable and i do not recognize it as remotely accurate or representative of what we were about our objective was to build a mass party

03:15:57 our objective was to build a mass party by talking to people and getting on with daily organizing clothes full ms pointer notes in the report dated the 27th of january 1978 of an swp district meeting that she is no longer listed

03:16:11 meeting that she is no longer listed with the reference open quote mentions wswp

03:16:15 wswp close quote but with a reference to her own special branch registry file she states that there is nothing that she has seen in the reports that she has been provided with which would justify

03:16:26 been provided with which would justify the creation of a personal file and that she is angry that such detailed information on her personal life has been recorded she comments upon further reports from

03:16:38 she comments upon further reports from september 1980 which recorded not only personal details but also her future education plans she states that there could be no good reason why this information was recorded and shared by the police and possibly the security services

03:16:49 the security services in relation to another report containing personal information she states open quote i find it disturbing that i was subject to such detailed profiling and investigation by special branch at the time i was not someone engaged in

03:17:04 time i was not someone engaged in subversion or who posed a public order risk and i've never been arrested or convicted of any offence i get the feeling that the reason that i'm being profiled in this way is simply for being active on left-wing issues close quote

03:17:15 close quote other reports from this time record details about her then boyfriend including his employment details and their domestic arrangements and she states that this information was so personal that it feels deeply

03:17:28 so personal that it feels deeply invasive to have been observed and recorded by the police one particular report that her former boyfriend failed to obtain a job in part because he was colorblind this was not information

03:17:39 colorblind this was not information known to her previously which indicates just how deeply phil had deceived her boyfriend into trusting him with intimate details about his life and demonstrates how close they were as friends

03:17:48 friends miss pointer states that she's surprised that there was such a focus of police resources on a small branch of the swp in north london whilst no undercover officers appear to have been sent into the national front at a time when

03:18:00 the national front at a time when national front members were a source of serious violence and public disorder julia poynter expresses concern that the details of a 15 year old and a 16 year old school children were recorded in

03:18:15 old school children were recorded in intelligence reports simply for being attending swp meetings and for being politically active a report from july 1978 about the swp district meeting refers to vince miller taking on leadership of the industrial group

03:18:25 group ms poynter observes that in taking this role not only was vince miller reporting on the swp but he would be influencing its work and direction which she views

03:18:37 its work and direction which she views as often quotes obviously inappropriate close quote julia pointer also recalls that vince was branch treasurer a role that gave him access to the bank details of members and access to the membership list

03:18:52 list members bank details including hers were included in a report dated the 15th of august 1978 and she states open quote i'm really shocked that the police recorded their bank details i

03:19:07 police recorded their bank details i can't see any justification for this further serious invasion of their privacy and of their legitimate expectation of confidentiality close quote she also comments in a report from april 1978 in which it is noted that it was intended to elect vince miller as the

03:19:18 intended to elect vince miller as the new treasurer at the following week's meeting

03:19:19 meeting which indicates that he was aware of this but did not take steps to avoid being elected

03:19:30 being elected her reaction to finding out that vince and phil were the undercover officers her first reaction to learning that vince and phil were undercover officers was one of upset and which later became anger

03:19:39 anger anger at the betrayal of trust and friendship this feeling was particularly acute in respect to vince who she considered to be a close friend

03:19:52 be a close friend she finds it hurtful to think that she had trusted him enough to open up and share things with him over the three years of their friendship ms pointer is also very angry about vince's decision to deceive madeleine into a sexual relationship and she is deeply concerned to learn that notwithstanding a deceit of this nature

03:20:08 notwithstanding a deceit of this nature that he ended up in a position of power and authority as national director of the ncis

03:20:10 the ncis by way of conclusion she states overall if the intrusion into people's personal lives and the resulting damage to them were not so serious i would feel

03:20:22 to them were not so serious i would feel like the undercover police were a bit of a joke

03:20:23 a joke i am astounded by the sheer volume of reporting and how trivial much of it was i cannot see how why such intrusive

03:20:36 i cannot see how why such intrusive reporting was necessary they spent years infiltrating a group because of its political ideology rather than any realistic or practical threat of serious violence

03:20:45 violence so that concludes the summary for julia poynter and the evidence for today thank you very much and that indeed concludes our proceedings for today we

03:20:56 concludes our proceedings for today we will resume tomorrow at 10 o'clock when we will hear our first live evidence from lindsay german thank you

03:21:44 you