HN80, HN106 & HN126 Summaries - School Kids Against Nazis

Full transcript

00:08:58 good morning everyone and welcome to day 15 of hearings in tranche 1

00:09:01 tranche 1 phase 2 at the undercover policing inquiry

00:09:04 inquiry my name is neil fernandes and i am the hearings manager for those of you in the virtual hearing room please turn off both your camera and microphone unless you're invited to speak by the chairman

00:09:15 speak by the chairman as zoom will pick up on all noises and you will be on screen i now hand over to the chairman sir john mitting to formally start proceedings chairman thank you uh we're going to begin today

00:09:29 begin today by a summary of the evidence of two undercover officers by ms muller when she has finished that there will be a break to permit the technology to be rearranged

00:09:40 rearranged and we will then embark on live evidence from hn126 i'm going to ask first of all that the usual recording is played made earlier and this applies

00:09:55 made earlier and this applies to the stage at which live evidence is being given not to the stage in which miss molina is summarizing the evidence of officers which will be broadcast live may the recording be played please

00:10:14 i am conducting this inquiry under a statute

00:10:19 statute the inquiries act 2005. which gives me the power

00:10:22 the power to make orders regulating the conduct of the inquiry including its hearings in the exercise of that power i have made a number of orders which affect what you may

00:10:35 affect what you may and may not do in the hearing rooms and after you leave them breach of any of the orders is a serious matter and may have serious consequences for you

00:10:50 you if i am satisfied that a person may have breached an order i have the power to certify the matter to the high court which will investigate and deal with it as if it had been a contempt of that court if satisfied

00:11:06 a contempt of that court if satisfied that a breach has occurred and merits the imposition of a penalty the high court may impose a severe sanction on the person in breach

00:11:17 breach including a fine imprisonment for up to two years

00:11:18 two years and sequestration of their assets

00:11:28 evidence is going to be given live over screens in the hearing rooms it is strictly prohibited to photograph or record what is shown on the screens

00:11:39 or record what is shown on the screens or to record what is said by a witness or anyone else in the hearing rooms you may bring your mobile telephone into the hearing rooms but you may not use it for any of those purposes

00:11:53 purposes you may use it silently for any other purpose

00:11:57 purpose in particular you may transmit your account of what you have seen and heard in a hearing room to any other person but only once at least 10 minutes

00:12:09 but only once at least 10 minutes have elapsed since the event which you are describing took place

00:12:19 this restriction has a purpose in the course of the inquiry i have made orders prohibiting the public disclosure of information for example about the identity of a person for a variety of reasons these orders must be upheld it is inevitable

00:12:33 inevitable that whether by accident or design information which i have ordered should not be publicly disclosed will sometimes

00:12:38 sometimes be disclosed in a hearing if and when that happens i will immediately suspend the hearing and make

00:12:53 suspend the hearing and make an order prohibiting further disclosure of the information outside the hearing rooms the consequence will be that no further disclosure of that information may be made by mobile telephone or other portable electronic device

00:13:05 portable electronic device from within the hearing room or by any means

00:13:06 means outside it i am sorry if you find this message alarming it is not intended to be

00:13:18 be its purpose is simply to ensure that everyone knows the rules which must apply

00:13:21 apply if i am to hear the evidence which i need to enable me to get to the truth about undercover policing

00:13:28 policing you as members of the public are entitled to hear the same public evidence as i will hear and to reach your own conclusions about it the inquiry team will do their best to ensure that you can

00:13:43 ensure that you can if you have any doubt about the terms of this message or what you may or may not do you should not hesitate to ask one of them and with my help if necessary they will provide you with the answer

00:14:07 thank you sir hn 80. publication of the real name of hn 80 colin clark is restricted he has provided the inquiry with a signed witness statement but has been excused from giving oral evidence for health reasons

00:14:21 evidence for health reasons hn80 infiltrated the socialist workers party or swp primarily in north london from march 1977 onwards he began within the seven sisters branch which appears to have merged with

00:14:35 which appears to have merged with or become the harangue branch and then became involved with the lee valley district of that organization and the right to work campaign h 80 held the position of treasurer at all these levels of the swp

00:14:49 these levels of the swp to a lesser extent hn80 also reported on the anti-nazi league or anl his deployment ended in march 1982

00:15:02 rick clark hn 297 told hn80 about the sds

00:15:04 sds and encouraged him to be put forward as a uco

00:15:09 a uco hn80 spent three months in the sds back office

00:15:12 office before entering the field during which time he grew his hair and a beard and dressed down he was deployed on the 17th of march 1977.

00:15:24 hn80 states that the practice of using the identities of deceased children distressed him and as he knew that it would cause distress to the family of the child if it were discovered he refused to adopt it instead

00:15:38 he refused to adopt it instead he obtained a death certificate for a paul clark but used the full name column he wanted to use his own date of birth to which his managers are sent it but due to what hn80 describes as a problem with the system

00:15:52 problem with the system the cover documents were issued with a different birth date prior to deployment he recalls being spoken to by mike ferguson

00:16:04 spoken to by mike ferguson jeff kraft and hn 68 all of whom he describes as excellent management staff he recalls jeff kraft during a particularly lengthy discussion tasking him to collect information on quote

00:16:12 quote extreme left-wing activists and groups in order to protect the public in london to help to help the mps to police demonstrations

00:16:23 demonstrations and to assist mi5 in its counter-subversion role he contrasts the discretion he had in the sds to determine the type of information he provided with a more prescriptive approach to

00:16:37 with a more prescriptive approach to intelligence gathering in special branch he had no formal training and received no specific guidance on matters such as forming relationships with group members and involvement in criminality he asserts that his strong

00:16:48 asserts that his strong family values obviated the need for guidance on forming sexual relationships and that his backstory that he was involved in a long-term long-distance relationship with an air hostess from new zealand

00:17:02 hostess from new zealand was constructed to forestall romantic advances

00:17:03 advances from group members

00:17:08 married with a young child at the time of joining the sds he states that nobody from management spoke to his wife before he joined or afterwards

00:17:20 hn80 found cover employment as a mechanic working in a garage somewhere in wood

00:17:21 in wood green but he left after a couple of months to go freelance doing vehicle repairs

00:17:27 repairs for which he charged only the cost of parts and no fee hn80 had a passport in its cover now

00:17:39 at the beginning of his deployment hn80 states that he attended meetings at the sds safe flats twice a week where he put in his expenses and reports which he typed up at home and where he could speak to senior management occasionally he would put together a

00:17:56 occasionally he would put together a consolidated report with other officers make identifications from photographs and deconflict which officers would go to certain events

00:18:00 events later in his deployment a lack of time meant he attended sds meetings only once a week

00:18:12 a week hnet disliked the bi-weekly meetings as he felt that a dozen or so individuals converging on a flat on a regular basis was likely to attract unwanted attention and put his cover identity at risk

00:18:23 and put his cover identity at risk he recalls that on occasion ucos and managers met socially where they would discuss sports their personal lives and events in london or nationally rather than their deployments

00:18:35 rather than their deployments h and 80 would call into the office on a daily basis except on weekends and if particularly urgent matters arose it was possible to contact managers at home

00:18:45 he had cover accommodation in north london as his managers deemed it a good place to be based in order to make contact with the more important

00:18:56 make contact with the more important individuals on the extreme left wing and he was directed to obtain information generally on groups in this political arena conversation with an swp paper seller who was keen to recruit

00:19:11 who was keen to recruit provided an opening for hn80 and he was eventually invited to an swp meeting in may 1977.

00:19:19 in addition to his infiltration of the seven sisters and heroin gay branches of the swp

00:19:23 the swp hn80 had dealings with the tottenham branch

00:19:27 branch the first report in which hn 80 is named in his cover identity date from october 1977 and concerned

00:19:38 date from october 1977 and concerned meetings held in september of that year some early reports from hn80 dated mid to late 1977 contained details of members of the seven sisters branch including physical descriptions

00:19:50 descriptions race children occupations vehicles union affiliations and living arrangements hn80 disputes authorship of reports from april and

00:19:57 april and august 1980 which relay private sexual and medical information on the basis that he would not have regarded the health of individuals as significant for reporting concerning reports on talks on women and fascism and what is sexism

00:20:10 fascism and what is sexism hn80 recalls that while the talks themselves may not have been worth reporting

00:20:14 reporting quote the attendance lists were of greater relevance to special branch and he provides a similar rationale for recording the names of attendees at a women's voice fundraising evening

00:20:35 hn80 was also able to submit regular copies of the weekly information sheets prepared by the swp central committee restricted circulation and handed out to members at meetings and which he comments provided useful information about future events

00:20:49 in 1977 hn80 also provided reporting on the build up to an aftermath of the events of the 13th of august in lewisham including a threat made by the neo-nazi group column 88

00:21:00 group column 88 to burn down the house of an swp central committee member in that year he also started to report on the newly established anl regarding a report on an anl carnival

00:21:10 carnival in 1978 listing 229 attendees hn 80 asserts that the group quote was known to use violence and seek out confrontation

00:21:21 confrontation it was important to know where its support came from and was likely to come from in future

00:21:32 from in future hn80 also provided an eight-page report on an anl conference in birmingham in november 1978.

00:21:39 a few reports touch upon matters relating to the labour party and the young liberals including a delegate conference of the haringey labour movement anti-racist anti-fascist campaign set up by three north london constituency labour parties

00:21:51 labour parties and a list of attendees at a troops out of ireland demonstration organised by the young liberals in certain reports hn80 records the presence of elected politicians such as ken livingstone

00:22:03 politicians such as ken livingstone this states that he has no recollection of ever actually reporting on them one report suggests that hn 80 along with his branch of the swp attended a demonstration in october 1979

00:22:17 attended a demonstration in october 1979 protesting against police involvement in the death of blair peach he believes that he may be the author of a report on a public meeting organized by black people against state harassment

00:22:31 in july 1977 hnh reported on a public meeting held by the swp on the tactics to be used at a demonstration at the rumwick factory h hn80 asserts that this information was of interest to special branch

00:22:45 of interest to special branch as the dispute quote has significant public order implications hn 80 states that as far as he knew there was no standing instruction to report on industrial

00:22:56 report on industrial disputes unless they bore the potential for violence or disorder

00:23:06 1880 often reported union affiliation and attended the founding conference for the defend our unions campaign set up by the swp on his swp registration form hn80 noted that he was a member of the

00:23:18 a member of the amalgamated union of engineering workers which he claimed he added only to bolster his credentials he states he joined no trade union during his deployment

00:23:28 on four consecutive years over his deployment hn80 attended the swp national delegate conference and he recalls providing detailed reports on each one

00:23:39 each one one such report lists hn80 in his covenant as a steward with responsibility for security

00:23:49 hn 80's evolving stature within the swp was reflected in being trusted to lecture nationally on political standards and recruitment on behalf of the party and to women's voice by march 1980

00:24:01 and to women's voice by march 1980 h 80 had been appointed treasurer of the tottenham branch of the swp and already sat on the lee valley district committee as he recalls by virtue of becoming treasurer at that level too

00:24:15 level too he notes that he did not actively pursue these roles but that other members encouraged him to take them up by july 1980 he is documented as national treasurer of the right to work campaign

00:24:25 campaign he states that he assisted swp groups within the region with practical affairs only and never sought to influence policy or activities

00:24:36 policy or activities although his role as district treasurer gave him a vote at district meetings he attests that he tried to ensure that he always followed the majority trusted by his managers to act

00:24:48 trusted by his managers to act appropriately he does not believe that he was required to inform them of his ascendance in the swp

00:24:55 around a week before the 1980 right to work march hn 80 submitted a report which detailed the logistics finances trade union sponsorship and likely numbers for march

00:25:07 likely numbers for march some months after the march he also submitted a 12-page report containing the names and details of those who are detected and another listing details of the school children recruited as a result of a picket of schools at the march starting point

00:25:22 the march starting point in port tolbert h 80 notes in a similar context

00:25:26 context quote youth was not determinative of innocence

00:25:27 innocence of any potential public disorder

00:25:35 80 attended the whole of the march and remembers that there was some violence at its concluding event the picket of the conservative party conference unable he claims to stay on the sidelines

00:25:47 sidelines he was badly assaulted around the head and shoulders and struck out in self-defense 1880 received a commendation for his actions during this incident 1880 did not attend the 1981 march but he is documented as present at a

00:26:01 he is documented as present at a seven-person meeting of its organizing committee

00:26:09 from 1981 onwards hn80 is reporting changed in focus from district branch activities to matters related to the swp national office

00:26:16 office and central committee he states that his perceived

00:26:20 perceived can do attitude led to his being asked to help out on an ad hoc basis with administrative work at swp headquarters he agreed and notes that while this granted him access to information he would struggle to obtain

00:26:32 would struggle to obtain as district treasurer it was not a specific tasking hnet even received an offer to join the central committee but seeing the role as quote wholly

00:26:43 but seeing the role as quote wholly inconsistent with his responsibilities as a deployed uco he believes that he said he was too busy to give up any more time he nonetheless continued to have access to the upper echelons of the swp

00:27:00 to the upper echelons of the swp and notes that his managers quote were a little surprised on occasions by the activists that i was able to have contact with and gaining information on even if only fleetingly

00:27:11 fleetingly access to the swp hierarchy allowed hn80 to provide considerable intelligence on the swp's finances membership and organization nationally including an extensive international distribution list for socialist worker swp membership records and bank details

00:27:25 swp membership records and bank details of those who paid their subscriptions by backers draft possibly documented with photographs

00:27:34 mi5 appears to have valued hn 80s intelligence product notes for file from late 1981 refer to intelligence obtained by an sds officer

00:27:45 officer likely to have been hn80 who had access to the swp headquarters and in a letter sent to the deputy assistant commissioner regarding his debrief of him mi5 expressed thanks for the quote very fruitful discussion which had

00:28:04 quote very fruitful discussion which had filled a number of gaps in its knowledge 1880 does not believe that he was operating among subversives he asserts that while those on whom he reported may have been strongly opposed to government policy he believes that they were not seeking to subvert the institutions of the state

00:28:21 to subvert the institutions of the state 1880 recalls that he also had peripheral contact with those on the left wing of politics

00:28:26 politics who supported republicanism in northern ireland including those who supported the provisional ira while he believes that most of the related reporting is missing from his pack

00:28:34 pack a small number of his reports touch on this topic

00:28:42 hn80 states that many of the reports provided in this witness pack do not reflect those you recall submitting a large number of which gave brief indications of likely demonstrations and public order matters and were imparted by telephone there is also a lack of reporting data between november 1978

00:28:56 november 1978 and spring summer of the following year despite

00:28:59 despite recollection of submitting reports in the normal way during this period

00:29:05 he notes that his pay increased considerably as a result of quote thousands of hours worth of overtime payments during his deployment he states that while overtime was claimed routinely on the basis of office's own self-reporting

00:29:19 office's own self-reporting there was however an upper ceiling on the number of overtime house on which sds management would sign off agent 80 recalls that he was recognized in his real identity

00:29:34 in his real identity by people selling the swp newspaper who found out from his wife his real home address

00:29:37 address his immediate managers supported hn80's subsequent request to move outside the 20-mile limit which was however ultimately rejected by the mps hierarchy

00:29:47 hierarchy he also recalls that on three or four occasions after he was withdrawn he was approached by people who had known his cover identity hn80 considers sts management to have been effective

00:30:00 been effective providing practical assistance and guidance when necessary but also notes that quote the mps as an organization ignored sensible representations about the risks

00:30:12 hn80 states that he witnessed violence on several occasions in the context of public disorder from minor assaults to severe beatings other than the incident at the right to work march in 1980 where he asserts he acted in self-defense

00:30:32 acted in self-defense he participated in no violent influence he states he was not arrested charged nor convicted of a criminal offence while serving undercover and he did not appear in criminal proceedings as a witness there is no evidence to suggest that he engaged in sexual activity while in his cover identity

00:30:54 hm106 hm106 who used the cover name barry tompkins

00:30:55 tompkins has provided a witness statement a restriction order prohibits publication of his real name he is unable to give oral evidence for health reasons

00:31:07 health reasons hm106 joined the police in the early 1970s

00:31:11 1970s for six months before joining the sds boston's special branch he carried out plain clothes surveillance work but had no undercover identity he believes he was told the vacancies within the sds

00:31:27 told the vacancies within the sds and so approached his head mike ferguson although there was no formal interview process discussions followed and mike ferguson went to hn 106's family home where he explained to hm 106 and his wife

00:31:40 wife that he did not want him to join if it were likely to cause difficulties in their marriage hm 106 assumes that the sds preferred recruiting married officers because his spouse could provide support and probably

00:31:53 and probably also as it would reduce the likelihood of an undercover officer quote going rogue

00:32:01 hm106 believes he received no formal training when he joined the unit during 1978.

00:32:03 1978. he recalls no advice or guidance on involvement in the private lives of those he would meet undercover or sexual relationships it states that it would have been obvious to him

00:32:14 it would have been obvious to him that becoming sexually involved with targets was not a good idea hi 106 is not sure that the precise legal and ethical limits on officers behavior were on while undercover were spelt

00:32:24 spelt out action 106 remembers receiving informal training while working in the sds back office where he read intelligence reports and activist literature

00:32:38 activist literature he describes having a reasonable level of influence over his tasking which he saw as inevitable given he would have to use his own common sense and judgment in the field

00:32:49 and judgment in the field for his cover identity hm106 used the name and date of birth of a deceased child his cover background he believes consisted only of telling people that he was born or had lived abroad

00:33:02 was born or had lived abroad but had come to england with his parents he had cover employment as a delivery driver for a garden center in greater london

00:33:09 london and a cover vehicle which he sometimes used to ferry around activist contacts he had a covered driving lace license but no passport he also had a number of cover flats during his deployment

00:33:24 deployment including one in stoke newington that he shared with another undercover officer hn 96

00:33:33 hm106 states that he would hand write his reports either at his family home or during the twice weekly sds meetings where he would hand them in urgent information he relayed by telephone hm106 states that generally he passed on all the information he could recall

00:33:47 all the information he could recall and understood that sds managers would then decide which parts formally to record and to disseminate

00:33:58 hm106 is unable to recall providing most of the information contained in the intelligence reports in his pack although he disputes actual attribution in relation to certain groups there are also details on reports such as

00:34:09 also details on reports such as immigration status or telephone subscriber information which were outside his purview and which he believes came from other sources and or were added by the sds office after he submitted his reports

00:34:26 hm106 understands that officers were expected to attend at least one of the twice weekly sds meetings at these most people would provide a brief oral update about their deployments which were also discussed in general

00:34:41 which were also discussed in general terms including any unusual situations and officers would also chat and occasionally argue sds managers who were usually present would have overheard any discussions and sometimes gave advice and guidance

00:34:55 and sometimes gave advice and guidance he recalls that he may on occasion have arranged separate meetings if there was something of importance to discuss

00:35:01 discuss he would also call the office every day to let them know he was okay

00:35:08 hm106 states that management directed him towards the far left wing and to look into whether groups other than those already well covered by the sds

00:35:14 sds such as the swp should be targeted to enable the police to assess a group's threat to public order hm106 understood that he should report on its membership

00:35:31 on its membership and on plan protests and demonstrations it was also expected to identify those who broke the law before during or after demonstrations and to report on a group's long-term aims

00:35:44 hm106 entered the field in april 1979 and suspects he would have started reporting in may of that year the earliest report contained in his battle is dated 30th of may 1979 and relates to a leaflet issued by the friends of blair peach committee

00:35:56 friends of blair peach committee his bundle also contains a report listing attendees at a blair peach demonstration in april 1980 and another from july 1980

00:36:09 in april 1980 and another from july 1980 on efforts of the friends of blair peach committee to form a national coordinating body concerned with cases of state brutality by the police and prison authorities hm106 states that the best of his

00:36:20 hm106 states that the best of his recollection he had no involvement with the friends of blair peach committee although it is possible he came into possession of the leaflet in the early report hm 106 disputes

00:36:32 in the early report hm 106 disputes authorship of an intelligence report from july 1979 which lists attendees at blair peach's funeral as he says he has no recollection of attending and would have been unable to name such

00:36:43 and would have been unable to name such a large number of people so early in his deployment

00:36:48 hm106 states that he came across the spartacus league which he describes as a revolutionary trotskyist group because they were active in east london where he was based

00:36:59 where he was based hm106 recalls sinking the group might be of interest to the sds after speaking with members who expressed pride at having thrown bricks at police offices during the minor strike pickets

00:37:12 strike pickets hm106 assumes he became involved through buying the group's newspaper and attending their meetings in order to gain legitimacy he describes attending some general left-wing

00:37:25 attending some general left-wing and labour party events and getting a basic knowledge of marxist trotskyis literature he would also socialize with activists in the pub and in their homes

00:37:34 the spartacus league is the main focus of hm106's intelligence reports until around mid-1980 he attended their office on a couple of occasions

00:37:40 occasions and believes he was considered a relatively trusted supporter rather than a member

00:37:46 a member he states he did not really witness the group posing a significant challenge to public disorder and although they sometimes gave the impression of wanting to split off from peaceful demonstrations to

00:37:59 peaceful demonstrations to quote cause trouble elsewhere is never really amounted to much he believes however that their support for the provisional ira may have been of greater concern and

00:38:10 may have been of greater concern and suspect that the group would have been capable of providing low level support to this organization

00:38:20 hm106 produced some reporting on the revolutionary marxist tendency or rmt from mid-1980 onwards which he believes was quote effectively a sister organization to the spartacus league the large

00:38:33 to the spartacus league the large majority of hm106s reporting from 1980 onwards

00:38:37 onwards concerned the rct and at the end of 1980 workers against racism or war described in the reporting as a front for the rct the rct changed its name to the revolutionary communist group

00:38:51 revolutionary communist group rcg and then to the revolutionary communist party rcp he states that he took up no formal roles within these groups

00:39:03 formal roles within these groups one report on an rct educational on ireland

00:39:06 ireland held in february 1981 and attended by 12 people

00:39:07 people records a discussion of what unconditional support to the irish republican army actually entails with one individual asking whether it should extend to planting bonds or gun running

00:39:21 planting bonds or gun running although this is this is repudiated by other members as with the spartacus league hm106 presumes the sds wanted intelligence on the rct

00:39:31 the rct in part because of its support for the provisional ira some of the rcp reporting indicates an apparent desire to support the irish republican army and there is limited reporting on the rcp-linked irish

00:39:42 rcp-linked irish freedom movement

00:39:46 the intelligence report attributed to hm106 described no significant instances of public disorder instigated by the rct or rcp

00:39:55 or rcp and instead focus on the membership and on public meetings and conferences

00:40:01 hm106 recalls that some time into his deployment he and two individuals he met through either the spartacus league or the rmt set up a new group as a vehicle for them to voice

00:40:13 to voice disapproval of the way in which existing groups operated he states that they sought no other members

00:40:22 hm106 recalls that during his deployment a kgb

00:40:23 a kgb officer attempted to recruit him to deliver information on behalf of the russian security service and said that he would need to go to russia for training it was decided with sds managers that

00:40:38 it was decided with sds managers that his cover identity would not withstand scrutiny in russia so he rejected the offer

00:40:45 offer after which there was no further contact hm 106 believes this officer to be a russian individual recorded by him as attending two rcp meetings in 1982 a contemporaneous mi5 document records that special branch were

00:41:01 that special branch were quote totally against allowing an sds source to become involved with such situation hm106 also believes that for a number of months during his deployment he and the two other founding members of

00:41:12 and the two other founding members of his small group pass bits of information to an individual who may have been working for a foreign security service and he was particularly interested to know about views on apartheid and return for sums which came to hundreds of pounds

00:41:26 hundreds of pounds hm106 states that the sds office was aware of the individual and that he was funding hm106s group in exchange for information

00:41:37 exchange for information in addition to war hm106 presumes he was involved

00:41:40 involved east london workers against racism for elwha

00:41:42 elwha as the reporting indicates hm106 believes war is established to recruit a broader constituency to the rcp as

00:41:53 a broader constituency to the rcp as many more people consider themselves to be anti-racist than communists hm106 recollects that he and three or four

00:42:04 four war members would visit families that were experiencing race-related difficulties and to whom they would offer assistance and encouragement to become involved with war one report records a visit by a delegation of 17 including a time-out journalist to a

00:42:19 including a time-out journalist to a wolfenstein walthamstow housing estate to go on a physical support for a resident family subject to racial harassment by use from the estate

00:42:31 it contains the names and addresses of another three families being helped by elwha

00:42:34 elwha after suffering racist attacks concerning this hm106 states that if he came into possession of information that people were being attacked and racially abused he would have thought this should be passed on to the police

00:42:49 hm106 recalls that he was tasked by sds managers to consider the accuracy of a daily mail article suggesting that war was a militant

00:43:00 he organization there was concern at the time which was around the brixton riots of 1981

00:43:02 of 1981 that communist groups would try to ferment disorder amongst ethnic minority groups

00:43:07 groups in fact hm106 formed the view that war did not represent much of the threat and states that its largely white rcp membership struggled easily to win

00:43:19 rcp membership struggled easily to win the trust of ethnic minority communities which undermined its credibility as an

00:43:24 organization

00:43:30 in relation to a report from april 1981 on an elwha public election meeting at which speakers apparently criticized the police for their attitude to young black people hm106 says he has no recollection that reporting members views on the police

00:43:44 reporting members views on the police is considered especially important but that such information might have helped in understanding the causes of the brixton riots one report on a war meeting in april 1983

00:43:55 1983 relates to the group's involvement in the case of a 13 year old quote west indian boy who claimed to have been beaten up and stabbed by the police

00:44:04 police while hm106 states that he cannot recall the meeting he believes that the reference in the report to whether the case could have the

00:44:11 the quote agitative potential of the colin roach incident would render information on the allegation and its perceived credibility useful to the sds

00:44:26 useful to the sds there are also reports on a meeting of the hackney legal defense committee on a public meeting of the new m8 defense campaign held in october 1982 featuring gareth pearce

00:44:31 pearce of which hm 106 no recollection and another on gareth pearce acting for six of the twelve views arrested during disturbances in bradford in july 1981.

00:44:50 hm106 believes that he got information on a private meeting of the organizing committee of the roach family support committee

00:44:53 committee from the east london rcp member recorded as having attended there are further reports attributed to hm106 which mention colin roach as a result of east london rcp or elwha support or through the submission of a

00:45:07 support or through the submission of a roach family support support committee leaflet

00:45:14 hm106's bundle also contains a report on an individual involved with the new cross massacre action committee and on a meeting of the winston rose action campaign held in august 1981 which arose from the death of winston rose in a police van after being restrained by officers

00:45:31 after being restrained by officers hm106 says he has no recollection of these groups nor of providing this information in respect of the personal information about individuals in his reports

00:45:42 about individuals in his reports including addresses and occupations and on occasion specific personal information such as on family members partners and sexual relationships hm106 asserts that it would seem logical to report back

00:45:54 to report back information which would help identify members and regular attendees of the groups

00:45:58 groups infiltrated some of the intelligence reports

00:45:58 reports contained particularly personal information such as the subject of the report being in a sexual relationship and suffering from cystitis an individual's recent abortion

00:46:11 individual's recent abortion and reference to an rcp member's quote large

00:46:17 large hm106 states that he would be surprised if he provided the information in the first year reports and doubts very much that he would have included the comment in third

00:46:26 the documents suggest that hm 106 ceased operational duties in june 1983 and was debriefed by mi5 in july 1983 although he recalls his employment ending in the latter part of 1983.

00:46:39 ending in the latter part of 1983. while hm 106 states that he did not join a trade union while deployed the mi5 debrief note records him as saying that he was an inactive branch member of the transport and general workers union and allowed his membership to lapse

00:46:55 hm106 does not think he win a subversion during his deployment he believes the left-wing communist groups lacked the degree of influence to achieve their aim of communist government in the uk and so does not regard them as actively or effectively subversive

00:47:10 or effectively subversive hm 106 states that he engaged in no sexual relationships was undercover he understands that his operation hearn interview regarding a possible relationship with an activist

00:47:22 relationship with an activist was a result of what he describes as a flippant remark in an mi5 file note that he had quote probably bedded a potential informant but had quote been warned off by his bosses

00:47:35 warned off by his bosses hm106 states he has no clear memory of this person and certainly had no sexual relationship with her and notes of the hern investigation found no evidence to the contrary

00:47:44 contrary he believes that the file note might have arisen from an incident relating to a quite close platonic relationship that he formed with the ex-partner of an

00:47:56 that he formed with the ex-partner of an activist who was not an activist herself they would meet up for drinks and he would sometimes stay the night at her house

00:48:02 house in a separate room if he were unable to drive home some activists started to refer to her as quote barry's girlfriend which he claims helped his cover

00:48:16 which he claims helped his cover a reference in an intercepted telephone call to potentially storing items from ireland

00:48:19 ireland at quote barry barry's girlfriend's place

00:48:21 place apparently led to a meeting at which trevor butler said something like you're not going to get us into trouble are you to which he responded no it's nothing like that

00:48:35 hm106 is unable to recall any specific incident to public disorder or violence and participated in none while he was once intentionally tripped up by police officers at a demonstration he does not think this amounted to violence

00:48:48 violence hm106 believes that it would have been difficult to gain the sort of information he reported without the use of undercover officers he has no real idea of what was done with his reports or of their value to policing

00:48:57 policing but hopes they provided a realistic and fair assessment of the threats posed by groups hm106 states that he sometimes

00:49:08 groups hm106 states that he sometimes engaged in low-level criminality while deployed

00:49:11 deployed and recalls one incident when he acted as a look at look out while spartacus league activist sprayed graffiti on bow bridge he believes it was understood that you could get involved in such activity

00:49:24 could get involved in such activity if necessary to maintain your cover but the ucos would certainly not have been allowed to take part in serious crime nor would they have encouraged others to act unlawfully in the event of arrest he thinks they were told not to reveal that they were ucos

00:49:39 ucos and to ring the office straight away he was never arrested in his couple identity

00:49:42 identity nor did he appear or participate in criminal proceedings

00:49:48 hm106 states that he had no concerns for his or his family's welfare and describes how he was given a pager when his wife was pregnant with their second child which enabled him to be present for his child's birth

00:50:01 child's birth he does not believe that his time in the sds had an impact on his long-term welfare

00:50:05 welfare around five years after he left the sds hm106 recalls that tony waite who was head of the unit at that time contacted him about the subject of some of his sds reports and asked whether he stood by the information he provided

00:50:22 the information he provided which hm106 confirmed he believes that this was in relation to a deportation matter

00:50:26 matter that he cannot be sure that concludes the summary for these officers in addition to the witness statements and documents for these two officers the inquiry is also publishing today documents in relation to hn356

00:50:39 documents in relation to hn356 356 had the cover named bill bix and reported on the international socialist which became the swp during his deployment

00:50:50 deployment analysis of his documents can be found at pages 225 to 232 of council to the inquiry's written opening statement for tranche one phase two thank you

00:51:02 for tranche one phase two thank you thank you very much um there will now be a break of about a quarter of an hour while the technology is rearranged to permit us to have live evidence thank you

00:51:18 good morning everyone we will now take a break may i remind those in the virtual hearing room to remember to join your breakout rooms please the time is now 10 45 a.m so we shall reconvene at 11 a.m thank you

03:21:22 you