This session features HN298 (Mike Scott) testimony (not available in transcript) followed by the reading of 'Mary's' powerful witness statement about being infiltrated by Rick Gibson (Richard Clark). Mary describes her activism in the Socialist Society and IMG supporting miners, health workers, women's rights, and anti-apartheid. She reveals Rick Gibson didn't infiltrate the Troops Out Movement - he initiated its South East London branch. Mary condemns the inquiry's focus on activists rather than police, describes sexual contact as 'state violence', and challenges police use of privacy rights while violating hers.
# Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (medium model)
# Source: Local audio transcription (no YouTube captions available)
02:48:30 you
02:49:00 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome back. I will now hand over to the chairman to continue proceedings. Chairman, thank you. I'm sorry I interrupted you. Mr. Scobie, you're going to read the statement of Mary.
02:49:15 Thank you very much.
02:49:19 This is the first witness statement of Mary dated the 26th of March 2020.
02:49:26 This statement is provided to the undercover policing inquiry further to the rule nine request on the 26th of February 2020.
02:49:38 The statement is provided further to the interactions with the man whom I knew as Rick Gibson, but whom I now know to have been Richard Clark, an undercover officer.
02:49:51 The inquiry has also asked me about the undercover officers David Hughes, Jim Pickford and Gary Roberts.
02:50:00 I would like to assist the inquiry about these undercover officers, but without further information disclosure or contemporaneous photographs, sadly, I'm unable to help further.
02:50:16 Personal details, question, please give your full name and date of birth.
02:50:22 The core participants name is Mary.
02:50:27 Now, girls, Smith's college question, please set out the dates on which you were a student at girls with college and the course which you start.
02:50:40 I attended girls with college between September 1972 to July 1975.
02:50:48 I studied for a certificate in education, nursery infant.
02:50:53 This was a full teacher training qualification.
02:50:57 Question, please outline your political activities in the student movement as a member of the socialist society and in connection with the International Marxist Group, IMG.
02:51:11 When doing so, please include a summary of what the aims of the groups that you joined or supported were and the methods they use to try and achieve these aims.
02:51:26 I joined and was involved in the socialist society, which was an alliance of socialist students of the far left.
02:51:35 There were supporters of the International Marxist Group, the International Socialists, as well as many independent lefts who were members of the socialist society.
02:51:47 We were separate from the Labour Club and the Communist Party students who were organized in the quote broad left unquote.
02:51:57 In my last year at girls with college, I was involved in the student union.
02:52:03 The socialist society were involved in many genuine campaigns to assist students in the college.
02:52:11 Members of the socialist society also sought to organize and develop campaigns beyond the campus.
02:52:19 We sought to link with campaigns in the workplaces, factories and in the community in South London in particular.
02:52:29 Outline below are some of the campaigns that I was involved in, alongside members of the socialist society and an outline of how we organized weekly meetings.
02:52:47 From recollection, we would meet every week.
02:52:51 We would invite speakers to introduce topics on historical, economic and societal issues.
02:52:59 Often they would involve international issues of the time, such as the national liberation struggle in Vietnam and South Africa.
02:53:10 I recall we also had speakers on issues of anti-racism, women's liberation, academic freedom, civil liberties, free speech and human rights in general.
02:53:25 Student welfare.
02:53:27 I recall we organized a campaign to demand that the university provide daytime fresh facilities to students and workers at the college.
02:53:37 I think this campaign was successful.
02:53:40 If it had not been for the members of the socialist society, this campaign of success would never have happened.
02:53:50 Trades council.
02:53:52 We were affiliated to and attended the local trade council.
02:53:58 Representatives of trade unions would send representatives from their branches to a trades council as a delegate.
02:54:07 Usually those delegates live in the local area.
02:54:12 As members of the socialist society, we felt it was not only politically necessary to show our solidarity, and we hope to support local workers in their struggles to pay and improve conditions.
02:54:26 I attended meetings of the trades council.
02:54:31 Miners strike.
02:54:33 I recall we did a lot of activity to support the miners when they took national strike action in the early 1970s.
02:54:42 I think we raised resolutions at the student union general meetings and raised collections for the national union of mine workers while they were on strike.
02:54:53 The socialist society was active around workers' struggles.
02:54:58 We adopted a mine in Wales.
02:55:01 I went to the mine and stayed with the families to show our solidarity.
02:55:07 The student union had adopted the mine and the visit was to bring solidarity and, I assume, we brought financial support.
02:55:18 Health workers.
02:55:21 In addition to the miners, we also supported health workers, nurses, doctors, porters and cleaners, who also took strike action in the early 1970s.
02:55:34 Again, we raised resolutions in the student union general meetings securing the support of Goldsmith College Students' Union.
02:55:42 Collections were raised to support the health workers and I and others attended picket lines to support the troop site movement.
02:55:53 The socialist society was responsible for launching the troop site movement in South East London.
02:56:01 A meeting was organised to launch the organisation following contact from Rick Gibson.
02:56:07 I understand that he had written to the national office of the troop site movement to join the organisation.
02:56:14 The National Abortion Campaign.
02:56:16 The socialist society also supported the national abortion campaign and brought resolutions to the student body to support a woman's right to choose.
02:56:28 The 1967 Act was a groundbreaking piece of legislation that allowed doctors in Britain to perform abortions lawfully.
02:56:36 However, the Abortion Amendment Act was introduced by James White, MP in 1975.
02:56:44 The bill wanted to restrict the reasons why a woman could secure an abortion and which doctors could perform them.
02:56:54 The bill was never passed, largely thanks to the National Abortion Campaign, which formed in March 1975 in response to the Act and gained a large support base from MPs, the general public and trade unions.
02:57:16 Social activities.
02:57:18 The socialist society arranged social activities such as plays and also social events, often to raise money in solidarity with the many campaigns we supported politically.
02:57:32 Anti-fascism.
02:57:34 The socialist society involved ourselves in campaigns against the fascist National Front.
02:57:42 It's important to understand that during this time the fascists were organised and had united in one organisation.
02:57:54 Not only were they a threat to the progressive movement organising, but they were, by their very nature, racist and anti-democratic.
02:58:04 I felt that the state was standing by as the racists organised.
02:58:10 I felt that the police, by their nature, were institutionally racist and as a result, let the National Front organise at will.
02:58:22 Mary describes her association with the Goldsmith Student Union and the causes it supported, such as the National Abortion Campaign and the Anti-Apartheid Movement.
02:58:36 International issues.
02:58:38 We organised campaigns and meetings on a number of international issues and we supported a number of issues and campaigns, including the Vietnam Solidarity Campaign.
02:58:52 Numerous meetings were held about the US intervention to Vietnam and against the national liberation struggle.
02:59:00 The socialist society involved itself in various campaigns to highlight the terrible consequences of this intervention and we sided with the struggle of the Vietnamese people for self-determination.
02:59:14 Anti-Apartheid Movement.
02:59:18 I came to the UK from South Africa.
02:59:20 This issue was close to my heart.
02:59:24 The socialist society supported the Anti-Apartheid Movement and had numerous speakers over the years about the struggle for national liberation of the black working class.
02:59:36 Individually and collectively, we attended pickets and protests over the years to support the Anti-Apartheid Movement.
02:59:44 Chile Solidarity Campaign.
02:59:48 The socialist society organised meetings around the Allende government, the situation in Chile and the overthrow by that democratically elected government by Pinochet.
03:00:00 It was very important for us to show solidarity with the people of Chile who were facing torture and execution at the hands of the Pinochet regime.
03:00:12 When I left London to live in Cardiff, I continued to support the campaign.
03:00:18 Like all members of the social society, I was a committed activist and wanted to see an end to injustice and discrimination.
03:00:26 I wanted to see a better future and for me, that would be a socialist future.
03:00:36 I was a supporter, not a member of the International Marxist Group.
03:00:42 However, for the purposes of this witness statement, it probably does not make much of a material difference.
03:00:50 Although I was only a supporter of the International Marxist Group, I was allowed to attend the local branch meetings in South East London.
03:01:00 The International Marxist Group had a branch structure based on geographical areas.
03:01:05 It produced a weekly newspaper.
03:01:09 As a supporter, I was required to sell Red Weekly.
03:01:13 I think the National Conference, which was delegate based, then elected a national committee.
03:01:21 During the period I was spied upon, I supported the International Marxist Group, Socialist Society, National Abortion Campaign and the Anti-Apartheid Movement.
03:01:35 I feel uncomfortable continuing to answer the questions that have been set about the International Marxist Group and my involvement in it.
03:01:45 The questions appear loaded.
03:01:49 Seriously, I thought this public inquiry was meant to be investigating undercover political policing.
03:01:57 The questions regarding, quote, methods and organization, unquote, should not be questions that are directed at those who were spied on and who suffered the intrusion of political policing.
03:02:11 I thought this was a public inquiry to undercover policing.
03:02:15 In my view, the issue of, quote, political policing, unquote, should be the center of this investigation, not the campaigners.
03:02:25 It is the, quote, spy cops, unquote, who should be investigated, not us.
03:02:33 However, the political campaigns that the International Marxist Group did and the Socialist Society involved itself in were all open.
03:02:45 Democratic decisions were made after proper discussion and debate.
03:02:51 It is obvious that the organizations and campaigns were for social justice in defense of human rights and to raise the ideas of socialism,
03:03:03 which the last time I checked, I'm entitled to do in a democratic society.
03:03:11 I've been advised that the chair has read all the documents and intelligence reports.
03:03:17 Surely, having read them, the chair can see that the issues of the Socialist Society and the International Marxist Group were involved in were issues that were in the forefront of what was going on in Britain at the time.
03:03:33 We were campaigning for better conditions for the working class and better conditions for women.
03:03:41 We joined with anti-racist campaigners as well against the overt and institutional racism of the state and the police.
03:03:49 With the passage of time, the issues we were campaigning around had been shown to be completely justified.
03:03:57 For instance, activists such as myself were involved in the struggle against apartheid.
03:04:03 We were on the verge of a crisis.
03:04:07 We were on the right side of history.
03:04:11 We campaigned as part of the boycott movement and we were right to do so.
03:04:17 We campaigned against the racism of the police, the campaigns supporting the black communities.
03:04:23 We were right with the right thing to do to expose the institutional racism led to the McPherson report,
03:04:33 which showed that campaigners were right then and now to highlight this.
03:04:39 Over those years, I actively supported the National Liberation movements in Vietnam.
03:04:47 And again, with the passage of time, I and others have been shown to be on the right side of history.
03:04:55 Both now and then, I oppose xenophobia, racism and anti-Semitism.
03:05:03 I support both the right of freedom to religious expression, but also the freedom not to be religious or to follow organized religion.
03:05:15 I am for human rights, civil rights and remain committed to social justice.
03:05:23 I do find these questions about the International Marxist group and the socialist society and methods to be loaded and futile.
03:05:35 As far as I'm concerned, at the time, I was a person who considered myself a socialist,
03:05:41 a person who was defending civil liberties, democracy and human rights.
03:05:47 In order to campaign effectively, it required challenging the state, which is our legal right and responsibility as citizens.
03:05:57 At no point was I ever involved in conspiracies or discussions to involve myself in illegal or violent activities.
03:06:07 In fact, there are a number of occasions where I felt unprotected by the police when I should have been protected.
03:06:15 For example, a meeting that we'd organized in East Ham town hall was smashed up when fascists came into the building.
03:06:25 The police who were outside the town hall stood back and let it happen.
03:06:31 Question.
03:06:35 Did you use an alias in relation to any of your political activity?
03:06:39 If so, what was it?
03:06:43 I'd originally forgotten that I even had a quote party name unquote,
03:06:49 but I discovered from Rick Gibson's own notes that my alias was Millwall.
03:06:55 Millwall.
03:06:57 I was given the name Millwall because I sold Red Weekly every other week outside Millwall Football Club grind.
03:07:05 I think it was called The Den.
03:07:08 I have to say I was a braver woman than I thought I would ever be.
03:07:12 I also recall selling Red Weekly outside factories in South London.
03:07:19 Question.
03:07:21 Please consider the intelligent reports which the inquiry has obtained and included in your witness bundle.
03:07:28 You are named in each one of the enclosed reports, in some cases in the redacted, at the end of the report.
03:07:36 Are the details that have been recorded accurate?
03:07:39 If not, please identify inaccurate reports and set out the respects in which the report is inaccurate.
03:07:47 At tab 13 intelligence report, UCPI 9562, it states, quote,
03:07:57 The following information has been received from a reliable source.
03:08:01 Mary, who has been unemployed since leaving college last summer,
03:08:08 has taken work as a carpenter's mate in Great Yard North.
03:08:15 She will retain her flat at or for weekend visits to Carver.
03:08:24 Recollection of events.
03:08:28 Question.
03:08:30 Please provide a factual account of your contact with an experience of Rick Gibson,
03:08:37 including how he behaved and the sexual contact you have previously described in your January 2018 witness statement.
03:08:46 You can answer the specific questions about Rick Gibson below either separately or by incorporating them into your narrative.
03:08:56 With regards to this answer, the first point I would make is that the chair and counsel to the inquiry
03:09:02 need to refer to the first date that was provided in January 2018.
03:09:07 This, I hope, will provide a useful background.
03:09:12 My recollection of Rick Gibson was that he was easy to befriend.
03:09:17 He was a harmless sort of person, and he was not predatory.
03:09:22 He was very mild, very bland, and also very boring.
03:09:30 I did not have protracted or frequent sexual encounters, and at no point could he be considered, quote, a boyfriend, unquote.
03:09:39 He was friendly and was in contact with me, I'd assume, for political reasons, as he'd become a fellow activist.
03:09:48 We'd become friends and had become fellow activists.
03:09:51 He was a frequent visitor to both myself and to my flatmate, who was also an activist at the flat we shared.
03:09:59 I did not initiate or make the first move, but it assumed that our sexual encounters were a manifestation of a mutual attraction.
03:10:12 They proved to be half-hearted and fizzled out.
03:10:16 I was not particularly concerned or upset that a long-term relationship failed to materialise.
03:10:22 First, I was not interested in one, and secondly, I had a long-term partner.
03:10:27 Had I known he was a police officer, there is absolutely no way I would have had any sexual contact with him at all.
03:10:38 In my opinion, the sexual contact and his use of sex was a way of consolidating his history and to cement his reputation.
03:10:51 He was using it to get closer to us as a group of activists.
03:10:58 In my view, these intelligence reports that have been disclosed to me consist of only sanitised second-hand reports of, quote,
03:11:09 intelligence received, unquote, rather than first-hand reports from Rick Gibson himself.
03:11:16 I do find it appalling that in the course of preparing the reports for senior management,
03:11:23 Rick Gibson has seemingly left out reports about the sexual contact.
03:11:29 If this was reported, did senior officers know?
03:11:34 If so, it is appalling.
03:11:37 Their silence or even acquiescence allowed this to continue.
03:11:43 I've had sight of the tradecraft manual written by Andy Coals and used for special demonstration squad recruits.
03:11:50 I find the whole strategy and practice of undercover police officers having sexual relations with activists as immoral, unprincipled,
03:12:03 and a criminal abuse of emotions.
03:12:06 It's also an abuse of their own partners and families.
03:12:10 On one level, I'm not surprised what the state is capable of.
03:12:15 Coming from South Africa, I was aware of what the Bureau of State Security, BOSS, was doing,
03:12:23 but it still kind of surprises me what has appeared to have been sanctioned here in Britain.
03:12:32 The Metropolitan Police Commissioner was sanctioning the spy on legitimate political campaigners
03:12:39 who were campaigning for social justice and human rights.
03:12:44 I do accept that undercover policing can and should be allowed in issues relating to national security
03:12:53 and serious criminal activity such as terrorism.
03:12:59 But this kind of spy and the activities surrounding it were so unnecessary and so out of control
03:13:10 that it cannot and should not be accepted in a democratic society.
03:13:16 I believe that to Rick Gibson would have been obvious that my fellow campaigners and I were not involved in any illegal activities.
03:13:26 I'm totally opposed to any acts of violence.
03:13:29 My opposition to violence stems from my background of being aware of state violence in South Africa.
03:13:36 I would also add that the sexual contact that I and other women faced was a form of state violence.
03:13:45 I particularly say this in relation to the women who were involved in long-term relationships.
03:13:53 Looking back, I reflect that Rick Gibson was always strangely unobtainable.
03:14:01 He would not exchange contact details and he always had reasons why he could not be contacted.
03:14:09 I seem to remember he said he worked for the Water Board and was often away.
03:14:15 In reality, Rick Gibson had no profile and kept his profile extremely low.
03:14:23 Finally, I am angry with the Metropolitan Police.
03:14:27 It took it upon itself to do this and had a cavalier attitude to privacy.
03:14:32 It did not consider the rights of people to be involved in legal and genuine political activities.
03:14:39 I am appalled that Rick Gibson and others were allowed to befriend activists
03:14:45 and to spy on people holding legitimate political views.
03:14:51 Question.
03:14:53 The Intelligence Report dated 17 February 1975 relates to a meeting in the Students' Union Bar
03:15:02 at Goldsmith College on 6 February.
03:15:05 It appears to be accompanied by another report about you at Tab 2.
03:15:11 Can you recall how long after you first met Rick Gibson this meeting occurred?
03:15:17 The memory of my first meeting with Rick Gibson is a little bit hazy.
03:15:22 I think I first met him in possibly early to mid-1974 or early January 1975.
03:15:32 I recall first meeting him when he approached me at a political stall.
03:15:37 The Social Society often had a weekly stall at Goldsmith College
03:15:41 to publicise our meetings or to ask people to sign a petition.
03:15:46 This often helped to get into discussion and hopefully get them involved.
03:15:51 I think it is highly likely I spoke to Rick Gibson in December 1974 or early January 1975.
03:16:01 It's likely that I met him prior to his first meeting in the Student Bar
03:16:06 which took place on 17 February 1975.
03:16:10 I understand that Rick Gibson wrote the National Office of the Troops Out movement in December 1974.
03:16:17 If that was the case, his letter of membership application was likely prompted
03:16:24 by the Birmingham pub bombing in November 1974.
03:16:29 It's important to remember that Rick Gibson didn't so much infiltrate the South East London branch
03:16:36 the Troops Out movement. Prior to his letter to the National Office of the Troops Out movement,
03:16:43 a branch did not exist. His letter prompted myself and other activists
03:16:50 such as Richard Chesson to meet with him and launch it.
03:16:57 Question. Did Rick Gibson participate in or encourage any crime?
03:17:02 Answer. Not to my knowledge.
03:17:05 Question. Did Rick Gibson become involved in criminal proceedings in any way?
03:17:10 Not to my knowledge.
03:17:12 Question. Did Rick Gibson become involved in several legal proceedings in any way?
03:17:18 Not to my knowledge.
03:17:20 Question. Did Rick Gibson become privy to any confidential legal advice
03:17:26 as a result of pretending to be an activist?
03:17:30 Not to my knowledge.
03:17:34 Question. When was the last time you can recall Rick Gibson and in what circumstances?
03:17:42 It's important to remember that from his first meeting with me
03:17:47 and other activists at Girlsmith College, you were just a stepping stone to bigger things.
03:17:53 Rick Gibson was skilled enough to go from branch secretary of South East London
03:17:59 to London organiser of the Troops Out movement relatively quickly.
03:18:04 He then, as I understand it, became the convener of the national offices.
03:18:10 I saw Rick Gibson probably for the last time in late 1975.
03:18:17 I would certainly say that from this date, any meaningful contact became less and less.
03:18:23 He occasionally may have counted my flat that I shared with another activist.
03:18:28 On occasion. On occasions.
03:18:31 But over the months, as he became more and more involved in the Troops Out movement nationally
03:18:37 and moved up the quote, career ladder unquote, he became more and more peripheral to me.
03:18:46 Question. Can you recall any contact with any of the following?
03:18:51 If so, please set up recollections that you have of these individuals.
03:18:56 David Hughes.
03:18:58 I do not recall this person.
03:19:01 I would welcome further information about why the inquiry believes he is important to me.
03:19:08 Did he spy on me? Did he spy on my friends?
03:19:11 Is there a photograph available so that I can assist the inquiry with their questions?
03:19:18 I'm aware that David Hughes HN 299 stroke three four two was active between 1971 and 1975.
03:19:25 I know that he had infiltrated the Anti-Internment League, the International Marxist Group and the Troops Out movement.
03:19:34 On the 18th of June 2018, representations were made on behalf of David Hughes,
03:19:41 that his real name should not be released and should be subject to a restriction order.
03:19:46 The submissions from lawyers acting to the Metropolitan Police argued from part six quote,
03:19:53 a restriction order protecting HN 299 straight three four two's identity is required in order for the inquiry to meet its due time.
03:20:04 The human rights act 1998 not to act in a way which is incompatible with the convention rights.
03:20:11 The convention rights in this is article eight disclosure of HN 299 three four two's real would amount to an unjustified and or disproportionate interference with his right private life.
03:20:24 In particular, the abuse of the human rights act 1998,
03:20:29 the objective effect of disclosure set out paragraph 19 of the risk assessment.
03:20:36 The level of risk posed by this interference with HN 299 three four two's private life is set out in the risk assessment at paragraph 19.
03:20:49 Is reasonable to infer there will be some public interest in HN 299 three four two by virtue of his status as a former UCA close quote.
03:21:02 The chair on the 13th of September 2018 advised that he was minded to grant this undercover officer restriction order in relation to his real name.
03:21:15 This despite the fact that the chair stated quote, there is nothing to indicate that his deployment was anything other than unremarkable unquote.
03:21:26 Close quote.
03:21:27 The chair went on to advise quote, in the unlikely event any member of any of the groups can remember him publication of his cover name, not of his real name is what is required to prompt the investigation.
03:21:40 Publication of his cover name, not of his real name is what is required to prompt informational evidence from publication of his real name would risk unwelcome media attention and the attention of those who may be ill disposed towards within his small community.
03:22:00 It would not assist fulfillment of the terms of the reference of terms of reference of the inquiry.
03:22:08 Close quotes.
03:22:11 I would not wish a person unwelcome media attention.
03:22:16 However, I do find it ironic.
03:22:19 The Metropolitan Police are using the right of privacy to defend its former officers.
03:22:28 Where was my right to privacy?
03:22:31 As core participants have argued maximum openness and disclosure is necessary.
03:22:38 Quote, the inquiry was established expressly and specifically to investigate undercover policing and in particular undercover political policing and to do so publicly in order to get to the full truth and to restore public confidence in a way that the preceding private reviews have been unable to do.
03:23:01 Close quotes.
03:23:02 Without full disclosure, I am concerned this inquiry will struggle to satisfy its remit.
03:23:11 Finally, in order to assist the inquiry, I would request that a contemporaneous photograph is found of David Hughes for me to consider.
03:23:26 Jim Pickford.
03:23:27 I do not recall this person.
03:23:30 I would welcome further information about why the inquiry believes he's important to me.
03:23:37 Did he spy on me?
03:23:38 Did he spy on my friends?
03:23:40 Is there a photograph available so I can assist the inquiry with their questions?
03:23:46 I'm aware that Jim Pickford, HN 300, was involved in and infiltrated a number of anarchist groups.
03:23:55 However, I understand he was also involved with the Battersea and Wandsworth Trades Council.
03:24:00 Given my own involvement in a South London Trades Council, it is possible that I may have come to contact with him.
03:24:09 However, I understand further to Order 67 that his real name cannot be released because of his right to privacy under Article 8 of the European Court of Human Rights should be protected.
03:24:23 I understand he is now deceased and the request was made by his surviving children.
03:24:30 Gary Roberts.
03:24:33 I do not recall this person.
03:24:36 I would welcome further information about why the inquiry believes he is important to me.
03:24:43 Did he spy on me?
03:24:45 Did he spy on my friends?
03:24:47 Is there a photograph available so I can assist the inquiry with their questions?
03:24:54 I'm aware that Gary Roberts, HN 353, was involved in the infiltration of the International Marxist Group and the International Socialists.
03:25:04 I understand that his real name is restricted as his human rights and his right to privacy will be breached under Article 8.
03:25:12 For the reasons outlined above, I find the police demanding their human rights and right to privacy as ironic as they did not care about mine or others.
03:25:26 The quote, minded to, unquote, note by the chair states, quote, his deployments appear to have been unremarkable.
03:25:37 There is no known allegation of misconduct against him, unquote.
03:25:42 The same was said about Rick Gibson.
03:25:45 In the absence of contemporaneous photographs, I will be unable to assist the inquiry about this undercover officer.
03:25:54 Impact.
03:25:56 Question.
03:25:57 If not already covered in your answers to the above questions, please explain the impact that Rick Gibson had upon you, including how you felt when you found out, A, that he was not who he said he was, and B, that he was an undercover police officer.
03:26:19 I was simply astounded when I found out he was a police officer.
03:26:25 When I discussed this with another activist in Goldsmith College, she also knew Rick Gibson.
03:26:32 Certain aspects of Rick Gibson's behavior clearly fell into place that he would have, or certainly could have been, an undercover officer or MI5 officer.
03:26:43 There are a number of issues that should have been obvious to me, such as the fact that he was totally uncontactable.
03:26:51 He would initiate contact with the activists, who he was spying on, but overall, Rick Gibson was elusive.
03:27:00 The fact that Rick Gibson had, quote, no back history of any note, unquote.
03:27:07 He didn't have a political back history of any sort that I was aware of.
03:27:13 He also appeared to be extremely politically naive and also utterly new to the idea of activism.
03:27:22 For someone who wanted to support Irish self-determination, he doesn't seem to know much about the situation in Ireland and the role of the British state.
03:27:33 Maybe our own humanity made allowance for his own apparent naivety.
03:27:42 Now I look back, it is clear that his sexual advances and the use of sex was a way of ingratiating his way into the group as a whole.
03:27:56 I feel horrified that undercover policing did occur and that it carried on through the decades.
03:28:05 I am disgusted the police felt it appropriate to spy on people like me and others who were campaigning for better conditions for working class people,
03:28:19 for democracy, civil liberties and human rights.
03:28:24 The use of sex as a strategy is appalling and the fact that it carried on throughout the decades is wrong on many levels.
03:28:37 I do not consider myself traumatized by what happened.
03:28:42 I just feel embarrassed and foolish about the fact that I was used and conned.
03:28:51 The fact that I was fooled in such a way really angers me as the police had no right to do this.
03:29:01 The only solace I can take is that not only was I convinced by Rick Gibson,
03:29:07 but that everybody else was fooled by him until Big Blame found out who he really was.
03:29:16 Finally, I am anxious to establish what other personal information is held on me by the police special branch at MI5.
03:29:27 I am anxious, having read the details contained within my file, that there are more entries from other officers such as those mentioned above.
03:29:36 I am appalled that Rick Gibson is likely to have regaled to other officers and people in the Metropolitan Police of his stories
03:29:46 whilst infiltrating both the Troops Out movement and broadly speaking the International Marxist group itself.
03:29:54 And no doubt his sexual, quote, conquest, unquote.
03:30:01 I now also want to know what information the SDS and the Metropolitan Police passed on to the special branch or MI5 when I moved to Cardiff.
03:30:13 I feel the intelligence reports that have been disclosed only form a small part of the whole picture
03:30:21 and I seek reassurances from the inquiry.
03:30:26 Question. If you do recall any of David Hughes, Jim Pickford and Gary Roberts, please explain the impact they had upon you
03:30:37 and the finding out that they too were undercover officers.
03:30:43 At this stage, I do not know who these people are
03:30:48 and in the absence of contemporaneous photographs, it's very hard for me to provide any further information.
03:30:59 Other question. Please set out any other factual evidence you can provide about the conduct of Rick Gibson, David Hughes, Jim Pickford and Gary Roberts
03:31:10 to assist the inquiry to get to the truth.
03:31:13 I have reported as much as I can on Rick Gibson.
03:31:18 With regards to the other three undercover officers, it's impossible, given the passage of time, to assist the inquiry further, particularly without photographs.
03:31:29 Question. Is there anything else you wish to add that may be of assistance to the work of the inquiry?
03:31:36 With regards to the work of the inquiry, I would like to know what the Metropolitan Police and other organisations,
03:31:45 such as potentially MI5, HOBE, in relation to correspondence, whether my phone was tapped, whether they have photographs of me and also my friends.
03:31:59 This is particularly relevant given that we were then in a paper-based society and much of this information should, I think, still be available and should be disclosed to me.
03:32:14 I would ask the inquiry to advise whether Rick Gibson reported back on his sexual relationships to his superiors.
03:32:25 This type of political policing is completely unwarranted.
03:32:32 The reports disclosed to me must have been seen by senior civil servants and ministers.
03:32:40 I would like to know who authorised this activity by the police and how it was justified.
03:32:50 In a democratic society, there is a duty to campaign and protest when and where necessary.
03:33:00 The actions of the police and the undercover officers bring democracy into disrepute.
03:33:11 Documents. I have no further documents to provide. Question. Diversity information.
03:33:20 I have no further documents to provide.
03:33:24 Diverse information. What is your racial origin? Answer. White British. What is your gender? Female.
03:33:34 I believe that the content of this statement, to be true, signed Mary and the date is the 26th of March 2020.
03:33:45 Thank you, Mr Scobie. I think that concludes proceedings for today.
03:33:50 Thank you.
03:33:56 Thank you, everyone. The hearings have now finished for the day. We shall resume at 10am tomorrow.
03:35:15 Thank you.